Student Help - PA22 - Charts, Pattern, and Airspeed

[andya]

nice lookin tripacer

[andya]

I second Clayton on that book , have had one for 20 years

[JPerkins]

More avgas is the solution to your flying quandary. Dont get too wrapped up around the wheel, it all comes with time. And it'll feel like your getting worse, then bam, things start clicking.

That book of Claytons looks so handy that I'm gonna get one myself.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[flynfish]

I bought my PA-22/20 a little over a year ago and have spent roughly 150hours this past year turning avgas to noise to slowly end the bouncing down the runway, going around and making firm arrivals. The approach speed the CFI who checked me out used was 75mph. It may have been okay for that plane, but not for mine. The airspeed indicators on these older planes can be out of whack a bit. So, I'd go up for some stall fun. Figure out what your indicated stall speeds are for your plane. Then set your approach speeds accordingly for 1.2, 1.3Vso and work with those numbers. With just my wife and I aboard, Vso for me is around 49mph indicated, best I can repeat. 49mph sets my approach speed at around 65mph for 1.3Vso and is what I use. I am 80-85mph on downwind at 2100rpm, going to 1500rpm at the numbers and bringing in the first notch of flaps that when trimmed out will have the speed about 75mph. Second notch of flaps after turning base that when trimmed out will settle the speed down to right at 65mph. Descent is kept consistent at 500fpm. I will slow up to 55mph over the numbers and a little bit (200rpm or so) of power as ground affect becomes apparent and the yoke comes back to stop the descent. At heavier weights I use a bit more power and bring it in a little earlier to avoid an extra firm landing and resultant bouncing down the runway.

[Freya Hester]

Thanks for all the comments on the plane, always have liked it. Flys great though it needs to be re rigged; its about a half a ball out of rig.

I think I will see if I can't track down that book, it looks helpful. And gods know I can use all the help I can get at this point. My ground school final is tonight and I am trying not to panic (I have never been good at testing)

I do have a zippered headliner, and the last time I checked it it was dry up there. But it does need to get fixed or at least slowed down, the old girl doesn't need water in her electrical. Had to dump water out of the tail a few weeks back after a big storm, some of the drain holes got plugged up. I also printed that service letter so my dad can take a look at it, he is Mr. Fix It. I am doing good to fix my sewing machine and change the oil on the car.

As for flying skill, I feel like I take two steps forward and three backwards some days. Some days we'll go out and I nail it, great take offs, great air work, then I couldn't fly the pattern if my life depended on it. Then other days I can fly the pattern just fine and I can't manage to remember that you need to use rudder while turning. Though it makes me feel better when my CFI takes the controls and buggers it up. HAHA

Fish : as for the speeds, if I tried to pull that my CFI would ring my neck I think. He protested 75mph for landing speed, though I don't really know why I was right on target and had a quartering tail wind. And it seems that if you have any little bit of wind that tri-pacer at 80mph likes to float a bit unless you pull back all the way but I have found you can run out of aileron. One thing is for sure though that wing design is great and loves to stay in the air (good for engine failure bad for wanting to land).

[Glen Geller]

Hi Freya,
Congratulations on owning the 1955 PA22-150 Tri-Pacer, the finest airplane ever conceived - I own one as well, N2714P, SN3020.
I have owned One For Papa for about 14 years, Tri-Pacers are great and full of fun as long as your respect the envelope.
I see you fly from Goheen. That's a great place to fly from. My gang is based at Hillsboro, we'll have to meet you and your Dad soon!
UPDATE: I think your Dad is Alan, right? We are friends on Facebook but have not yet met.

So, here are my comments and suggestions:
1) Come visit us at Hangar Bravo Three in the NE Tees at Hillsboro (KHIO). You will need to go to a towered field for your training, your choices are PDX, TTD (in the mouth of the windy Columbia River Gorge) AUAO and HIO. Lots of training at HIO, including many from Asia so it can be interesting but the controllers are the best, just announce on call in you are student transient on first visit (say that every time you come to a new area!) and they will be gentle and helpful. Do a few laps around the pattern and when it's time for a full stop ask for progressive taxi to NE tees, and "the Tri-Pacer gang at Hangar Bravo Three." We have FIVE Tri-Pacers, a Pacer, two Cherokees and a 182. We would be glad to meet you and Dad and chat airplanes. One of our gang is a retired airline pilot instructor with 1000 hours in the PA22. We will teach you whatever you need to know, and have a fun clubhouse. Hangar Night is every Tuesday at ~6PM, plus most decent weekends somebody is out there.
2) Visit our Facebook page Hangar Bravo Three and introduce yourself. #hangarbravothree
3) Contact Dave Luse at Camas (Grove Field), Dave is a great older gentleman, has been a Shortwing CFI forever, and he can advise you, and maybe even your CFI, on tips for teaching/learning in a Tri-Pacer. He can advise you on local A&P/IA to help with maintenance and annual. You want a mechanic who will let you assist in the maintenance to save a little money and have a better understanding of your funny old airplane.
4) Embrace the radio. Call PDX and get clearance to overfly the airport when heading south and back again. Controllers are there to assist you and keep everybody safe. remember to state in your call "student pilot, transient pilot" and they give you extra loving.

Hope we hear from you soon, keep it up and have a fun time flying the best plane ever built.

Glen

[flynfish]

Glen, is there a CFI there on the field whose name is Tony? He was my PPL CFI at Pierson and had a PA-22/20 there at Grove. Was the first PA-22/20 I'd flown in. Tony was starting his own school there on the field when I left the area 12 years ago.

[bigjohnnie]

Thanks for all the comments on the plane, always have liked it. Flys great though it needs to be re rigged; its about a half a ball out of rig.

I think I will see if I can't track down that book, it looks helpful. And gods know I can use all the help I can get at this point. My ground school final is tonight and I am trying not to panic (I have never been good at testing)

I do have a zippered headliner, and the last time I checked it it was dry up there. But it does need to get fixed or at least slowed down, the old girl doesn't need water in her electrical. Had to dump water out of the tail a few weeks back after a big storm, some of the drain holes got plugged up. I also printed that service letter so my dad can take a look at it, he is Mr. Fix It. I am doing good to fix my sewing machine and change the oil on the car.

As for flying skill, I feel like I take two steps forward and three backwards some days. Some days we'll go out and I nail it, great take offs, great air work, then I couldn't fly the pattern if my life depended on it. Then other days I can fly the pattern just fine and I can't manage to remember that you need to use rudder while turning. Though it makes me feel better when my CFI takes the controls and buggers it up. HAHA

Fish : as for the speeds, if I tried to pull that my CFI would ring my neck I think. He protested 75mph for landing speed, though I don't really know why I was right on target and had a quartering tail wind. And it seems that if you have any little bit of wind that tri-pacer at 80mph likes to float a bit unless you pull back all the way but I have found you can run out of aileron. One thing is for sure though that wing design is great and loves to stay in the air (good for engine failure bad for wanting to land).

Freya, as far as going two steps forward and three steps back, do not be disheartened. I had 400 hrs in my '55 PA22 150 and sometimes it seemed that I couldn't fly it with a darn. I am sure that there are many like me. It's called "an off day". Just keep at it,fly the wings off of it, * have fun *, and enjoy the learning experience. Experience is , by far, the best way to learn.... At least it was for me. You picked a fine airplane to learn in as a shortwing Piper will teach you good stick and rudder skills. Looks cool too!!

[flynfish]

As for flying skill, I feel like I take two steps forward and three backwards some days. Some days we'll go out and I nail it, great take offs, great air work, then I couldn't fly the pattern if my life depended on it. Then other days I can fly the pattern just fine and I can't manage to remember that you need to use rudder while turning. Though it makes me feel better when my CFI takes the controls and buggers it up. HAHA

Fish : as for the speeds, if I tried to pull that my CFI would ring my neck I think. He protested 75mph for landing speed, though I don't really know why I was right on target and had a quartering tail wind. And it seems that if you have any little bit of wind that tri-pacer at 80mph likes to float a bit unless you pull back all the way but I have found you can run out of aileron. One thing is for sure though that wing design is great and loves to stay in the air (good for engine failure bad for wanting to land).

The little wing you have out there is sensitive to aircraft loading and speeds used. To low a speed and you will run out of energy to flair. To high a speed and you wander down the runway bleeding it off before the wing wants to stop flying or wear out the brakes reining things in. You will get used to both with time but it just talks hours in the air to learn what the airplane is telling you and proper adjustments. A little throttle bump during round-out often helps get things stabilized for the landing. A quartering tailwind will throw approach perspective off as all of your air speeds will be on, but your approach to the ground will be faster than normal. Even in a no wind situation you can get a little behind and have a landing for the hangar pilots to dissect with glee.

[Glen Geller]

Glen, is there a CFI there on the field whose name is Tony? He was my PPL CFI at Pierson and had a PA-22/20 there at Grove. Was the first PA-22/20 I'd flown in. Tony was starting his own school there on the field when I left the area 12 years ago.

I don't know of any CFI named Tony at HIO.

GG