Landing a PA-22 for beginners?

[Jaysmiths]

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

Jay

[bigjohnnie]

Like dgapilot said, learn in a J3 ( like I did ) or a champ and learn good rudder habits. Once mastered, it opens up a
a lot of other options in the shortwing family... Pa 22/20 or pa20 -- both taildraggers, so your not limited to just tricycle gear. But, as others have said, finding a knowledgeable instructor that has experience in type is invaluable in my opinion. These airplanes are "honest airplanes" and do have their quirks, but they can be easily masters if handled with respect. They are also pretty danged robust and really pretty easy to fly.

[piperrocks2013]

Tripacer gear is actually pretty strong. The biggest issue I see with new pilots is trying to land too fast. They do this because the CFI tells them too. I think they have heard too many flys like a brick story and get scared. Find a CFI that has some pacer/tri-pacer time and knows how to slow down. Like the others said just leave power on and they are one of the best flying planes you can find!!
DENNY

I have to agree with PACERGUY. I had a problem of coming in to high and fast as it was pounded into me these planes sink like a rock... As soon as I ignored my CFI and flew it like Cessna 150. It was just fine after that. Like the above mentioned carry little power if you need to. They are not as easy to handle as a 150 but far from the hardest to learn on. Good luck



Jared

[wyandot jim]

Yep A lot of people were learning in Tri Pacers in the 50s-60s. One of the first tri-gear out there.
As far as learning in the Cub or Champ I also agree. In my case I was training in both a Cub and 150 because the Cub didn't have insurance for student solo. I soled in 9 hrs. in the 150 with 4Hrs. in it and 5 in the Cub. I then bought my 7AC Champ when I had 10 Hrs. This was 1964 and as they say the rest is History.

FWIW. Since we added the Stewart wing extension/tip our Pacer doesn't want to come down fast.
I have only flown it a couple hrs. so far in the pattern. The rate of decent at around 65-70 is 500FPM power off and half tanks and me 200#. With or without flaps seems about the same.
I plan on doing more testing and posting the results later.
Take off roll with half flaps 40 IAS no wind and 80F on grass is 300' climb @80-85 is 1000-1100FPM. Stall is a mush at 38-40IAS

That BD-4 must be a great performer with the IO-470. I thought about building a tail wheel model in the late 70s.

[Jim Hann]

FWIW. Since we added the Stewart wing extension/tip our Pacer doesn't want to come down fast.
I have only flown it a couple hrs. so far in the pattern. The rate of decent at around 65-70 is 500FPM power off and half tanks and me 200#. With or without flaps seems about the same.
I plan on doing more testing and posting the results later.
Take off roll with half flaps 40 IAS no wind and 80F on grass is 300' climb @80-85 is 1000-1100FPM. Stall is a mush at 38-40IAS

Jim,

That is my experience with a 22/20 with both the tips and VGs. When I jumped in the regular round tip non-VG Tri-Pacer to ferry to AZ it was quite different.

I agree with what everybody said about the Tri- with the extra drag of the nose wheel and scoop. If you can find a CFI with Tri- time that will help a lot, as stated previously most Cessna trained folks will be scared of the reputation in the hangar flying circles.

[tnowak]

I have the opposite learning issue!
My Vagabond is having its fuselage recovered so am temporarily flying a Luscombe 8F.
That is a slippery airplane! It just doesn't slow down like the Vag and other shortwing Pipers..
Having to learn a new landing technique.....

I learnt to fly on an Aeronca 7AC Champ and went solo after 9 hrs.
Then bought the Champ when I got my license and kept it for a few years.
Then sold that and bought a Colt
Then sold that and bought the Vagabond.
TonyN

[Steve Pierce]

I have the opposite learning issue!
My Vagabond is having its fuselage recovered so am temporarily flying a Luscombe 8F.
That is a slippery airplane! It just doesn't slow down like the Vag and other shortwing Pipers..
Having to learn a new landing technique.....

I learnt to fly on an Aeronca 7AC Champ and went solo after 9 hrs.
Then bought the Champ when I got my license and kept it for a few years.
Then sold that and bought a Colt
Then sold that and bought the Vagabond.
TonyN

I had the same experience with the Luscombe.

[cozzmo81]

Those of you that have time in luscombes, How would you compare the ground handling qualities of the Luscombe to the Pacer? I used to have a luscombe and fly a friends on occasion. I was just curious if one was easier to handle on the ground over the other?

[wyandot jim]

OK in my opinion the Luscombe is a much better at ground handling than a Pacer. The Pacer has a mind of it's own. Ours was an 8A that I put 50 or so hours in
IMHO it is hands down the best of the 65-85HP planes of that time period. Faster GREAT LIGHT controls and was/is aerobatic. My buddy and I would fly it with the doors off and make turns with our hands out the door. It will out fly and out handle any plane of that time period. My neighbor had an 8F with the O-320 conversion in it WOW
We had an outstanding 8A with a real strong 65 in it. Well it had some mods done to it by the same guy that built Bruce Bohannan's engines for Pushy Galore.
Daughter soloed in it before she went of to the USAFA in 1992. She was a little upset because she had to fly it with the doors off.

[cozzmo81]

Thanks for the pirep Jim. I couldn't agree more about your luscombe comments. I loved mine, maybe someday I'll have another. I am about a month or so away from installing my new engine on my pacer. It sounds like It will be a fun and exciting challenge learning its quirks. below is a pic. of my old luscombe.
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