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Thread: Experimental?

  1. #31

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    Default Re: Experimental?

    Under the 51% rule you get absolutely no credit for a salvaged parts like fuse, legs , engine mount , wings
    even though they can be modified even greatly, you get no credit under the rules


    kitsets are different because you get the % points for building up assembling the fuse, legs , wings etc.

    The rules are quite clear under FAA AC20-27G
    What I have done is purchased some homebuilt Falconar wings and tail with virtually the same specs as the pacer.
    That makes my project about 60%, well over the 51% rule.

    My Experimental will still look like a Pacer except for the tail.
    Last edited by chrismax; 08-06-2019 at 02:36 AM.

  2. #32

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    Default Re: Experimental?

    This thread looks pretty dead but ill ask anyway.
    Suppose I had a 1950 PA20. Could I buy some 4130 cr. Tube and start rebuilding. Starting with extending landing gear. And continue until I meet the 51% rule. And about where would that be. Could I just mock the entire frame. And move all the components to the new frame?

  3. #33

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    Default Re: Experimental?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob H View Post
    This thread looks pretty dead but ill ask anyway.
    Suppose I had a 1950 PA20. Could I buy some 4130 cr. Tube and start rebuilding. Starting with extending landing gear. And continue until I meet the 51% rule. And about where would that be. Could I just mock the entire frame. And move all the components to the new frame?
    If you or some other homebuilder builds the wings and tail 100% you will achieve the 51% FAA rule easily, but work changing or modifying an existing fuse including putting new gear on though allowable cannot be added in to the equation at all - the FAA rules and Calculation Form are in AC No 20-27G , it is also internationally acceptable

    I am currently fitting some Falconar Wings another homebuilder made onto a Tripacer I have modified with PA20 legs , and I will build my own tail empenage close to a PA20 design which is easy , I have done all the math on the form - which the authorities here or anywhere cannot refuse

    I recommend starting with the form first, the hard facts, and see what you can achieve - all the best!

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Experimental?

    To legally take a certified airplane to experimental it would have to be in the exhibition category not ameteur built.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Experimental?

    Rick points out the regulations on this in post 7 of this thread.

  6. #36

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    Default Re: Experimental?

    Actually, just parts by themselves are not considered an aircraft by the FAA, as noted in the legal interpretation of Krause :https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2018/Krause%20-%20(201%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf

    So a fuselage without any markings is simply an assembly of tubing material. You get no credit for the fabrication of it, but you could get credit for fabricating any additions/extensions and assembly of attachments.
    I have seen a couple projects take this route with success. Just make sure you use the checklist (even present it ahead of time to your FSDO guy).

  7. #37

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    Default Experimental?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyincajun View Post
    Actually, just parts by themselves are not considered an aircraft by the FAA, as noted in the legal interpretation of Krause :https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2018/Krause%20-%20(201%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf

    So a fuselage without any markings is simply an assembly of tubing material. You get no credit for the fabrication of it, but you could get credit for fabricating any additions/extensions and assembly of attachments.
    I have seen a couple projects take this route with success. Just make sure you use the checklist (even present it ahead of time to your FSDO guy).
    In DAR school they tell us if it was installed on a certified airplane, you can’t get credit for anything done to it, work on those parts would be maintenance under Part 43. I agree with you, best to get the checklist

    https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/...syCklistFW.pdf

    And fill it out, then talk it over with your DAR, FSDO or MIDO to make sure everyone is on the same page if it gets close to that 51%.

    The Krause letter was only dealing with the definition of an aircraft as it relates to registration, and isn’t applicable when talking about parts salvaged from a certified aircraft for use in an Experimental Amateur Built aircraft. If you can’t meet the 51%, then you would be looking at Experimental Exhibition. I had one client that we had to go that route with.


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    Last edited by dgapilot; 01-10-2021 at 03:39 PM.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Experimental?

    Experimental Exhibition? is that a program where you have get a letter from the FAA which allows you to fly only to special places or locations. ?
    "Progress is our most important problem"

  9. #39

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    Default Re: Experimental?

    Quote Originally Posted by andya View Post
    Experimental Exhibition? is that a program where you have get a letter from the FAA which allows you to fly only to special places or locations. ?
    You don't get the letter from the FAA, you write the letter and send it to them.

  10. #40

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    Default Re: Experimental?

    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    The Krause letter was only dealing with the definition of an aircraft as it relates to registration, and isn’t applicable when talking about parts salvaged from a certified aircraft for use in an Experimental Amateur Built aircraft.
    But it also set the precedence that the individual parts were no longer considered an aircraft by definition. A couple of people have used that to convince certain FAA personnel that they were using a part that was equivalent of a part that would come in a kit. Plus it was modified in the process.The remaining pieces were enough to clear the 51% hurdle.
    They did submit a sample checklist during the pre-build meeting and everyone was on-board.

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