Max takeoff crosswind component for Tri-Pacer?

[Subsonic]

This is a nosewheel crosswind takeoff question...Just wondering what you all might use as your personal upper crosswind component limits for takeoff in a stock Tri-Pacer? Especially when loaded light. Steady state and/or gusting winds? I'm quite comfortable up to about 7-8 knots cross component but begin to feel uneasy at about 10 knots, especially if it's gusting higher. I start with full aileron and roll out as speed comes up, and down elevator to keep the nosewheel pinned. At or near my personal crosswind limits my takeoffs seem more chaotic with a rolling-into-the-wind jump-off and quick transition to a level wing sideslip in ground effect to maintain the center line. It may be that I'm holding full aileron too long when near the limits? All comments appreciated.

[Gilbert Pierce]

My personal limit is much higher but I have full span ailerons which give me more aileron authority. In fact I have never run out of aileron on landing or takeoff and have done so in 30 mph direct cross winds, not by choice. Having said that, takeoff in crosswinds you mentioned are chaotic for me as well but controllable. Once the wheels leave the ground you are at the mercy of the elements. I just anticipate the chaos and try to control it. At times it is quite scary. I have used taxiways to minimize the crosswind on takeoff and landing.

[dgapilot]

CAR 3.145 requires demonstrated cross wind 90 degrees with velocity of 0.2 Vso.


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[Glen Geller]

Don't have the Owners Handbook handy right now, but a quick search for CheckMate PA22-150 pilot's checklist (of course that's not authoritative) suggests Vso is 43 kts /49 mph.
So max x-wind component (multiply by 0.2) would be 8.6 kts or 9.8 mph.
Your ASI reads to tenths, right?
I have landed my Tri-Pacer in X-wind of about 15 mph, not fun but not difficult if you have "generous" runway size.
It's a lot more stressful at small/remote/mountain strips. YMMV.

GG

[dgapilot]

Mind you, that is not a limit, that is what must be demonstrated for certification. Can’t recall from when I owned a TriPacer, but getting close to 25 mph crosswind was not uncommon.


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[Subsonic]

CAR 3.145 requires demonstrated cross wind 90 degrees with velocity of 0.2 Vso.


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This info was/is highly informative.
Thanks

[Stephen]

I try to eliminate as much of the perpendicular wind component by lining up off center then angling across the runway into the wind. I don't concern myself with the center line. Like you I put in full aileron at the start of my roll but, I mostly use rudder to control the plane. I don't want to catch a wing tip on the ground during takeoff.

Landing I use a longer straight in final and determine if I can hold the center line without too much aileron, again I don't want to catch an aileron.

[rocket]

Sounds like you are ready for some advanced Tripacer instruction.


Tire pressures per the book? 22psi mains and 17psi nose wheel? Check the book in case I'm wrong.


It is wise to have personal minimums as one learns and they should start with input, or rather direction from ones CFI. I've had a few as I learned and increased them accordingly. Personal min not CFIs

Stick with the book and use the wind angle conversion chart accordingly and as long as you are not rusty you will be fine. The Tripacer can handled wind.


Flew off of gravel snow and ice for years so when I approached the black sticky stuff the cross wind was always an eye opener. After a number of years I just made it a point to get in there and practice on the cross strip on the big paved runway more then a few times a year when it was 20-25kts


When it's howling come over the numbers adding gust factor to your airspeed holding proper correction, stick the upwind wheel and feed in aileron as ground speed diminishes, nose wheel touches next if you are doing it right about the time you hit the aileron stop, then the downwind wheel.


When it's really bad just land a taxi way or other Tarmac right into the wind. When it's gusting 45kts your rollout won't be much.


Had to chuckle some at your ten knot minimum but I do understand it. If we were grounded by 10k up here in AK we would never fly.


I did a minor emergency medavac from a village when it was beyond the 135 airtaxi max and my landing was so bad... They knew I wasn't able to taxi to parking so drove out on wheelers to meet me and I told him he didn't need to go, he needed stitches but he wasn't going to bleed out, he said heck no if I could land in this wind I can take off...


If you ever stand there and say to yourself, I really shouldn't go, then for dogs sake don't. On the other hand, if it's blowing right at your max, you've had a good day, and feel sharp,and focused then I say get in there and get sharper, get your groove on, and when you nail one perfectly down the centerline with nary a rubber squeak, then head for your tie down knowing you are ready to handle the wind with your wife or father or child sitting there next to you.




Rocket

[Pacerfgoe]

I was an instructor for a few years and saw quite a few different techniques for take offs.

I think what's making your takeoff hard at your upper limits is the application of down elevator trying to pin the nose.....with this technique your trying to steer the airplane at both ends, which is creating a wrestling match between tarmac and flight controls.

I will suggest you try this method if your comfortable with it.

Try starting with full aileron into wind and neutral elevator, keep your aileron full lock until the downwind wing starts to slightly rise, then relax it slightly, but keep more input in than you would normally. This pins the into wind main gear firmly on the runway, and will provide a firm contact patch where the rudder can be used to keep the airplane aligned with the runway. Since the aircraft is almost ready to fly, all it needs is some up elevator and slight relaxing of the aileron input just as the plane leaves the runway.....but not before!

Read that through a few times, and mentally go through a take off while sitting in you hangar a few times before trying it out, It worked for a lot of my students.

I am not sure how the aileron/rudder interconnect will affect my technique, guys with more experience on type should be able to help in that department.

[Steve Pierce]

This thread reminds me of a situation right after Cathy got her pilot's license. I had to do a pre-purchase inspection some 75 miles south of here and Cathy flew, I was in the right seat and our son who was about 5 was in the back seat. We approached the airport and listened to ATIS. The wind was exactly 90 degrees to the runway gusting to 20kts. I told her it was her choice, she could have the wind from the right or from the left depending on which runway she wanted to use. I was nervous as a rat and had my hands on my knees and kept twitching towards the controls but she did great and got us down and stopped. She could see me trying to refrain from grabbing the controls.

I do as Stephen described and try to do a long final approach hold the airplane straight down the centerline or my intended landing track. Was going into Santa Fe on the way to Idaho one year and the wind was really blowing. The controller wouldn't let me use the runway into the wind, it was closed. Even when I told him I needed a few hundred feet. I lined up on the corner of the active runway and my son asked me what I was doing. I said "screw them" and hit the corner of the runway at a 45 degree angle and was stopped when I got across the runway. Turned around and went down the taxiway to the approach end of the runway. It helped that I was in the Super Cub rather than the Tri-Pacer. We use the grass and taxi ways at my home airport in extreme conditions.