Question on Aircraft Certification and Registration

[rowdy49]

I want to purchase an experimental aircraft and import it into the US. The aircraft has a gross weight in Canada of 1460#. Can I at the time I register the aircraft in the US lower the weight to fit the LSA Category or does it have to stay 1460#? I contacted my local FDSO, but have not given a sure answer. They said they thought I could, but I don't want to import an aircraft and not be able to change the weight on it. Also, if I lower the weight, would I be able to raise it back up to the 1460# later on if I ever obtained my medical back or would it have to stay at the lower weight.

[dgapilot]

14cfr1.1 definition of a “light sport airplane” means an airplane, since it’s original certification, has continued to meet the following
1 a maximum take off weight of more than
(I) 1320 pounds for an aircraft not intended to operate on the water.


By definition, it can’t be operated as an LSA.
In the US, registration has nothing to do with airworthiness.

The only aircraft that can be “imported” are aircraft with a type certificate and were manufactured outside the United States. You just want to move an airplane from foreign registry to US registry, not import it.

Sounds more like an experimental amateur built airplane. They can never be certified as LSA, but any airplane, no matter the type of certification, that meets the definition of Light Sport aircraft, can be operated by someone that meets the requirements of a sport pilot.

Don’t shoot the messenger, the rules are just that screwed up.


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[Glen Geller]

DGA, I think you meant:
1 a maximum take off weight of NOT more than
(I) 1320 pounds for an aircraft not intended to operate on the water.


Here's a portion of the Wikipedia article on LSA (easier to find than the FAA page!) that lists the basics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-sport_aircraft

The FAA defines a light sport aircraft as an aircraft, other than a helicopter or Powered-lift, that since its original certification, has continued to meet the following:[6]
1.Max. Gross Takeoff Weight: 1,320 lbs (600 kg) or 1,430 lbs for seaplanes (650 kg)
2.Max. Stall Speed: 45 knots (83 km/h; 52 mph) CAS
3.Max. Speed in Level Flight (at sea level In the US Standard Atmosphere): 120 knots (220 km/h; 140 mph) CAS
4.Max. Seats: Two
5.Max. Engines / Motors: One (if powered)
6.Propeller: Fixed-pitch or ground adjustable
7.Cabin: Unpressurized
8.Fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering, two-blade rotor system, if a gyroplane.
9.Landing Gear: Fixed (except for seaplanes and gliders)


So, Rowdy, what kind of aircraft was being considered for this project?

Best,
GG

[rowdy49]

I was thinking about purchasing a Pegazair. My local FSDO said the rules read that at time of registration I could lower the weight, but I would have to have that in writing with a guarantee. I would hate to spend money and not be able to legally fly it.

[akflyer]

If it has ever operated at a category outside that allowed in LSA you could not qualify it for light sport. IE, if its ever had an inflight adjustable prop etc. This also only applies if one was honest about it. Is there anything on the aircraft paperwork that actually states its gross weight other than kit manufacture literature. do they have a phase 1 testing for it there that might have listed a max weight that it was flown at?

[dgapilot]

DGA, I think you meant:
1 a maximum take off weight of NOT more than
(I) 1320 pounds for an aircraft not intended to operate on the water.


Here's a portion of the Wikipedia article on LSA (easier to find than the FAA page!) that lists the basics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-sport_aircraft

The FAA defines a light sport aircraft as an aircraft, other than a helicopter or Powered-lift, that since its original certification, has continued to meet the following:[6]
1.Max. Gross Takeoff Weight: 1,320 lbs (600 kg) or 1,430 lbs for seaplanes (650 kg)
2.Max. Stall Speed: 45 knots (83 km/h; 52 mph) CAS
3.Max. Speed in Level Flight (at sea level In the US Standard Atmosphere): 120 knots (220 km/h; 140 mph) CAS
4.Max. Seats: Two
5.Max. Engines / Motors: One (if powered)
6.Propeller: Fixed-pitch or ground adjustable
7.Cabin: Unpressurized
8.Fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering, two-blade rotor system, if a gyroplane.
9.Landing Gear: Fixed (except for seaplanes and gliders)


So, Rowdy, what kind of aircraft was being considered for this project?

Best,
GG

Correct, typo!


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[dgapilot]

I was thinking about purchasing a Pegazair. My local FSDO said the rules read that at time of registration I could lower the weight, but I would have to have that in writing with a guarantee. I would hate to spend money and not be able to legally fly it.

Local FSDO wasn’t reading the regulation correctly. Nowhere does it say at time of registration. It says if it EVER operated above 1320 it is no go for light sport. Doesn’t matter where it was registered.

No need to ever ask the FSDO, just READ the regulation and decide if you will abide by it or be an outlaw! The whole key I aviation is to know the regulations better than FAA employees. That’s why I get at least one call a week from someone in the FAA asking me what the regulation means. They have no clue!


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[akflyer]

Local FSDO wasn’t reading the regulation. Nowhere does it say at time of registration. It says if it EVER operated above 1320 it is no go for light sport. Doesn’t matter where it was registered.


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And no one has ever flown a plane over "gross" either. The wording can get tricky on the LSA as there is no requirement to list gross weight on an EAB, so, depending on what the paperwork that was actually filed states, one can pass the grin test on saying an airplane meets the LSA requirements and can be flown under sport pilot privileges. I know a guy that had a KF Mod 5 that is listed by the kit manufacture as having a 1550 gross get it registered LSA by putting down 1320 as the max take off weight that he the builder self imposed. Much like they do with the sport cubs by placarding the engine RPM..

[dgapilot]

And no one has ever flown a plane over "gross" either. The wording can get tricky on the LSA as there is no requirement to list gross weight on an EAB, so, depending on what the paperwork that was actually filed states, one can pass the grin test on saying an airplane meets the LSA requirements and can be flown under sport pilot privileges. I know a guy that had a KF Mod 5 that is listed by the kit manufacture as having a 1550 gross get it registered LSA by putting down 1320 as the max take off weight that he the builder self imposed. Much like they do with the sport cubs by placarding the engine RPM..

So it would never be registered as an LSA as the type of certification is not on the registration. As to certification, a Kitfox model 5 would never qualify as either a Special Light Sport (21.190)or an Experimental Light Sport (21.191(I)). In theory, it would be an Experimental Amateur Built that meets the definition of light sport allowing a Sport Pilot to operate it.

Nowhere on the registration application or application for airworthiness does it ask gross weight. For E-AB, the weight and balance date is presented to the DAR at certification, but doesn’t go to AFS-750. Other than the owners build log and maintenance records, there is no FAA record for E-AB airplanes weight limits.


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[rowdy49]

I just checked the Canadian Civil Aircraft Registry and he has the GW listed at 658 kg or about 1447.6. So would there be any way around this as it is probably in the builders log? I found DAR-T that said he would help me but he said he could not find any set rules about the weight.