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Thread: Elevator authority on a 180 hp Pacer.

  1. #1
    Marc Davis's Avatar
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    Default Elevator authority on a 180 hp Pacer.

    Question for people who own a 180 hp Pacer. With the extra weight up front, do you have sufficient elevator travel? My 150 Pacer has plenty to land tail first, but I flew a 180 the other day and I could barely get to a 3 point before the controls hit the stop. I actually had to use full trim. I believe this is a rigging issue, but I wanted to be sure.

  2. #2
    andya's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elevator authority on a 180 hp Pacer.

    I expected that problem with mine but it didn't happen. If I am carrying a little power to bring it in
    very slow down to the flare, I can still touchdown tailwheel first. I have made a couple nice true
    3 point touchdowns, throttle cut and I don't think the yoke was at the aft stop.
    A factor to consider, I do trim crossing the fence so I am not having to hold aft pressure
    on the yoke until the flare.
    "Progress is our most important problem"

  3. #3
    Marc Davis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elevator authority on a 180 hp Pacer.

    Thanks Andya. BTW. I used the tail spring template off your web page. Worked great. Thanks.

  4. #4
    JPerkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elevator authority on a 180 hp Pacer.

    I did have trouble with the flare to three point. Installed gap seals and eliminated the problem.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using ShortWingPipers.Org mobile app

  5. #5
    Agent Speights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elevator authority on a 180 hp Pacer.

    My student and I did 4 Ccts this morning, 70mph approaches, 60 over the threshold with throttle cut and all were slightly TAIL first 3 pointers. 25kgs concrete mix bag in the baggage compartment to remain within COG when no back seat pax or baggage.
    Bernard.

  6. #6
    Marc Davis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elevator authority on a 180 hp Pacer.

    Agent Speights

    Where is your empty CG from the leading edge of the wing? The one I'm workign with is +3"

  7. #7
    andya's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elevator authority on a 180 hp Pacer.

    TCDS CG limits with respect to leading edge of the wing are 10" aft of wing leading edge( fwd limit)
    to 24" aft of the leading edge (aft limit)

    My Empty CG prior to rebuild was about 14.5 inches aft of the leading edge.
    Following rebuild and install of the O-360 is now about 12 inches aft of the leading edge
    Other factors of engine installation, oil cooler move to aft baffle behind #4 cylinder, Light weight starter installed.

    Not sure what your +3 inches is referenced to, if referenced to the leading edge it is way forward of the forward limit per TCDS 1A6 for the PA-22

    I have a PA-17 that empty CG is within a half inch of the fwd limit and I cannot three point it with the throttle at idle
    I normally carry a slight amount of power thru the flare and it three points well.
    "Progress is our most important problem"

  8. #8
    Marc Davis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elevator authority on a 180 hp Pacer.

    My mistake (old timers). The 180 is 3" more forward than my 150.

    The 180 is 9.3" aft of the LE empty.
    We set the plane up level (plump bob to the tube dent) on scales to get that. Same process I used on mine.
    I believe his elevator cables are poorly rigged. but it looks it he has a CG issue as well.

  9. #9
    59pacer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elevator authority on a 180 hp Pacer.

    For my PA22/20-160 it is 12.5" aft of the wing LE (empty).

  10. #10
    Marc Davis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elevator authority on a 180 hp Pacer.

    My 150 is 12.4 aft of the LE.

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