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Thread: Insurance claim fiasco

  1. #31
    Topogen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Insurance claim fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by LarryV View Post
    There was a similar issue with my 7KCAB Citabria, where the fabric behind the sky light wasn't sufficiently wrapped over the structure there, causing it to peel away. They removed and replaced the fabric from the rear of skylight to a point adjacent to the trailing edge of the wing.

    I also have Superflight on it (2007) and it wasn't that big a deal money wise to repair and you don't notice the repair unless you look for it and notice the tape over the seam where their isn't normally a seam.

    -----

    I'm in agreement that this isn't damage caused by an accident or incident, but rather falls under normal wear and tear or maintenance.

    Whoever recovered the aircraft is at fault for causing the issue by not properly securing the fabric to the channel. You may have a chance of getting that person or business to do the repair at cost, or reimburse you for the cost. But if you ask and they tell you to pound sand, then you'll have to lawyer up and that will take years and cost more than the repair. At best it'll be a pyrrhic victory.

    Even if it were a covered event, it would not be an issue where I'd have filed a claim anyway. I get a claims free discount on my insurance premium that amounts to about $200 per year on the PA-22/20 and the amount on my 7KCAB is about $150. Realistically, if the repair costs are less than $1750 (not including any applicable deductible), then it makes no sense to file a claim, as I'll spend more than that more over the next 5 years on higher premiums.
    Larry, Just a quick update. I sent a very carefully worded response to the AIG claims adjuster after speaking to a good friend of mine (an attorney who specializes in suits against insurance companies who act in 'bad faith' and try to wiggle out of paying claims). My attorney friend told be exactly what to say (using verbiage like 'bad faith' 'litigation' 'AOG issues' and separate suit for 'loss of use'). I was polite but firm stating that the aircraft is restored and pristine (backed up my numerous pix). The next morning they said the claim will be paid in full within 24h. In addition, they offered another $250 travel reimbursement because I had to make alternate arrangements to travel home due to AOG (which I declined). So, bottom line: AIG came through. I'm happy about that outcome obviously. I learned a valuable lesson here. Stand up for yourself, seek professional input and argue rationally 'what is reasonable'. It may take some time but this repair is not going to be cheap.
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  2. #32
    Kyle Duncan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Insurance claim fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by Topogen View Post
    Larry, Just a quick update. I sent a very carefully worded response to the AIG claims adjuster after speaking to a good friend of mine (an attorney who specializes in suits against insurance companies who act in 'bad faith' and try to wiggle out of paying claims). My attorney friend told be exactly what to say (using verbiage like 'bad faith' 'litigation' 'AOG issues' and separate suit for 'loss of use'). I was polite but firm stating that the aircraft is restored and pristine (backed up my numerous pix). The next morning they said the claim will be paid in full within 24h. In addition, they offered another $250 travel reimbursement because I had to make alternate arrangements to travel home due to AOG (which I declined). So, bottom line: AIG came through. I'm happy about that outcome obviously. I learned a valuable lesson here. Stand up for yourself, seek professional input and argue rationally 'what is reasonable'. It may take some time but this repair is not going to be cheap.
    Glad you got it sorted out. Insurance claims are the worst sometimes. They can come up with some of the most off the wall reasons to deny a claim. Hope you get your bird back in the air soon. It's a very nice looking airplane.
    Kyle
    N3951P PA-22-150
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  3. #33

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    Default Re: Insurance claim fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by Topogen View Post
    Larry, Just a quick update. I sent a very carefully worded response to the AIG claims adjuster after speaking to a good friend of mine (an attorney who specializes in suits against insurance companies who act in 'bad faith' and try to wiggle out of paying claims). My attorney friend told be exactly what to say (using verbiage like 'bad faith' 'litigation' 'AOG issues' and separate suit for 'loss of use'). I was polite but firm stating that the aircraft is restored and pristine (backed up my numerous pix). The next morning they said the claim will be paid in full within 24h. In addition, they offered another $250 travel reimbursement because I had to make alternate arrangements to travel home due to AOG (which I declined). So, bottom line: AIG came through. I'm happy about that outcome obviously. I learned a valuable lesson here. Stand up for yourself, seek professional input and argue rationally 'what is reasonable'. It may take some time but this repair is not going to be cheap.
    Don't take this wrong, but that's one of the reasons insurance premiums are high.

    I agree 100% that if you had a crash and related damage caused by loss of control due to the fabric coming loose, all of that damage from the resulting crash would be covered.

    More often that not, if the fabric that came loose wasn't replaced in the process of fixing the rest of the plane, the cost of repairing it would be de minimis and covered in the overall scheme of things.

    I can't say for sure without reading your entire policy, but I still strongly suspect that damage due to improper installation isn't a covered event.

    Yes, you talked to an attorney and yes AIG paid the claim. But they didn't pay the claim because it was covered, they paid the claim because it was just cheaper than going to court over it. Your attorney knew that. So did theirs. The reality is that it is cheaper to just pay your claim than it is to spend their legal staff time and the money it would take to pay a local attorney to represent them and contest it in court in your particular jurisdiction, even though it would be a slam dunk win for AIG.

    ---

    So what now? You get paid, your airplane gets fixed and that's great for you - in the short term.

    Down the road however, you may well expect a letter of non renewal from AIG when your policy comes due (worst case), or best case, the loss of any claims free discount you were getting. If you do seek new insurance, you now have to disclose that you've had a claim in the last (3,5,7, 10 years based on how far back the company in question looks) and you'll pay a higher premium, probably an even higher than the new AIG premium. One way or the other you'll pay the cost of that damage anyway.

    That's not where it stops either. I'm not insured by AIG, but your "accident" will end up in the data base for PA-22s and in the actuarial tables for other aviation insurance companies and an increase in accidents rates and/or costs eventually drives up the premiums for every PA-22 owner.

    In the end, constantly striving to get someone else to pay for things that are our responsibility is one the reasons why we can't have nice things.
    Last edited by LarryV; 10-12-2020 at 05:46 PM.
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  4. #34
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    Default Re: Insurance claim fiasco

    Obviously I disagree with your position, with all due respect. First, there is no way for sure to know that it was an installation issue. It's a freak accident... maybe a bird strike, perhaps UV deterioration, airframe flex, water leak and deterioration..whose to say! I could go on. Basically, I've not had a single claim in 25y of flying amphibs, taildraggers, high performance aircraft, twins, IFR hard and soft. My insurance premium is so friggen' low on this Tripacer, I'm not worried if it goes up... it matters not. Oh and by the way, AIG has already sent me a renewal letter on my Tripacer (maybe its too soon to know if they will raise rates or deny me I realize, but I get your point).

    AIG never once hinted at 'defects in installation'... and since I don't like leading with my chin, I'm not going to raise the issue. Insurance premiums are going up for many many reasons (litigation, expense of aircraft repairs, inflation... you name it). Your statement "In the end, constantly striving to get someone else to pay for things that are our responsibility is one the reasons why we can't have nice things" makes no sense. According to this logic, going after the prior owner to make HIM pay for the repair is no different than filing a valid claim....except there is a zero probability that the prior owners would agree to defray the repair. Not trying to scratch up an argument with you Larry... just want my views known. In any case, thanks for offering your unvarnished opinion. Any input is good on such matters!
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  5. #35

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    Default Re: Insurance claim fiasco

    Again, I added the caveat I have not read the policy. You listed several possible causes:

    "maybe a bird strike, perhaps UV deterioration, airframe flex, water leak and deterioration".

    A bird strike would qualify as it is an inflight hazard.

    UV deterioration, airframe flex, water leak and deterioration are not inflight or ground hazards. For most policies they will under normal wear and tear or maintenance issues and would not be covered.

    You got AIG to cover it. Good for you. I'm just saying there is never a free lunch and someone ends up paying for it.

    ----

    And for the record, I didn't suggest you got after the prior owner, but rather you contact the shop that did the recover to see if they'd cover it as a reputable business.




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  6. #36
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Insurance claim fiasco

    Someone always pays for an insurance claim, that is how insurance works.
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  7. #37
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    Default Re: Insurance claim fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Someone always pays for an insurance claim, that is how insurance works.
    Agreed. In my case, I am not willing to absorb the cost of the repair, which is quite high actually (certainly much more than a few thousand dollars!).
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  8. #38
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    Default Re: Insurance claim fiasco

    I wouldn't think the cost would be that much being that it did not rip the fabric back to the trailing edge. Pull the windshield, glue to the fuselage and then a glued seam to what is left just aft of the windshield. Do you have pictures of the damage?
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