Windshield fabric issue

[andya]

Now that we've heard of several in the past several months, I wonder how many have happened in previous years we never heard about.

[nogoodusernames]

New 22/20 owner, so I’m very interested in this. Will be checking mine on my next trip to the hangar.

Couple of questions...

Yours did not have the metal strip just above the windshield? It seems that the AD that I’ve found references looking under the metal strip, so are they all supposed to have the metal strip? Was the strip added in certain years of production? What is the number of the AD you are referencing? I may have missed it, or I suppose the AD could have been updated.

Will you be posting pictures of what and where the fabric exactly failed? Very curious because I know precisely slightly more than nothing about fabric construction.

Thanks for sharing about the accident, I appreciate the opportunity you are giving all of us to learn about these airplanes. Especially myself, as I need all the help I can get.

[Spdcrazy]

Now that we've heard of several in the past several months, I wonder how many have happened in previous years we never heard about.

that is what I am worried about. Yes the skylight is a fairly easy fix. But not everyone wants one, or wants to put their airplane under the knife and not fly. The strip is a simple and inexpensive fix for a problem I never expected I would have an issue with. If it’s only the cost of the strip holding anyone back, I would gladly buy it and install it for them to add some safety to things. But if we could get the AD to mandate the strip on all airplanes with fabric tops. It would help everyone be more safe.

[Gilbert Pierce]

The strip is a simple and inexpensive fix for a problem I never expected I would have an issue with. If it’s only the cost of the strip holding anyone back, I would gladly buy it and install it for them to add some safety to things. But if we could get the AD to mandate the strip on all airplanes with fabric tops. It would help everyone be more safe.

Report your problem on the SDR form and get the process started.
If the FAA is unaware of the problem then the word won’t get out.

[Spdcrazy]

New 22/20 owner, so I’m very interested in this. Will be checking mine on my next trip to the hangar.

Couple of questions...

Yours did not have the metal strip just above the windshield? It seems that the AD that I’ve found references looking under the metal strip, so are they all supposed to have the metal strip? Was the strip added in certain years of production? What is the number of the AD you are referencing? I may have missed it, or I suppose the AD could have been updated.

Will you be posting pictures of what and where the fabric exactly failed? Very curious because I know precisely slightly more than nothing about fabric construction.

Thanks for sharing about the accident, I appreciate the opportunity you are giving all of us to learn about these airplanes. Especially myself, as I need all the help I can get.

sorry, I missed this reply. It is an aftermarket part available by univair. The AD says if you have cotton or linen, you have to have the strip. But if you have the more common and newer fabrics like ceconite or whatnot, it’s not needed. I don’t have specific pictures of that area. But if you zoom in on my photo you can see the area. On the top of the windshield, is the culprit area. It doesn’t have to come up much to cause issues.

[rocket]

sorry, I missed this reply. It is an aftermarket part available by univair. The AD says if you have cotton or linen, you have to have the strip. But if you have the more common and newer fabrics like ceconite or whatnot, it’s not needed. I don’t have specific pictures of that area. But if you zoom in on my photo you can see the area. On the top of the windshield, is the culprit area. It doesn’t have to come up much to cause issues.

First of all good job on sticking her where it counts and walking away! I had an engine issue and found the perfect road, only I won the power line lottery too.

Second, thanx for sharing, there has been a few of these top fuse fabric issues and the more we learn we might prevent someone from experiencing the same fate down the road.


Would be nice to get a few photos of the top and the fabric up close.


About the FAA, they are involved as you well know but not sure another AD is what is needed. I could be wrong though... hmmm, you know let me change my mind, perhaps we do.


About twenty variables involved with fabric on the roof at the windshield:
UV, corrosion, windshield R&R, brooms, window scrapers, window cleaning agents, snow load, Ravens, poor fabric practices, lack of training, lack of inspection, heck even the color of the fabric has a bearing on its life, let's not forget location, ramp vs hanger, F'n Cottenwood trees, ramp rats, dogs and cats sleeping together, mass hysteria! Let me know which ones I missed.


I'm not sure the strap is an answer. I've pulled a few off just to look underneath.


Seems we have a general lack of experience with fabric and common sense notions of adhesion.


That your fabric pulled out says a few things: wrong application of adhesive, fabric not installed per plan, corrosion in the windshield slot.


The tough question for you, and for all of us, is preflight? Could this have been prevented, or rather caught before it became a safety of flight issue? You do not need to answer only I would like us all to get a good set of eyes on more regularly.


Any chance there was an event like popping open door or window that may have caused a pressure or vacuum not normal to our usual flight?


Ok, my bird was on her back during a 145knt wind event so during the rebuild I had to weld the little wing root shapes the fabric inside glues to, windshield was cracked and removed already, I peeled out the fabric, did my welding with my old man as fire watch outside the hanger just in case I released a whole Tripacer of magic smoke.


On reassembly I took the top strip of window to stuff and glue the fabric in but I actually glued two extra strips full width across the fuselage. One was about 6" wide and the next 12" so I had three layers folding around the leading edge of the window channel and heading act as a staggered doubler.


The main point of "wear" that I saw was mostly rain erosion at that point where the fabric wraps around the sheetmetal edge. I insert the windshield with the zinc chromate tape replacement, it spendy, it is a aviation polysulfide derivative.


Might be something else...oh ya, installed a lot of windshields in 25 years and the only one I ever cracked on install was mine :/ go figure, lost two to birds though, hazards of flying low I suppose


Rocket

[Old3pacer]

2 more questions (tired of these yet?)
how old is your fabric?
how much time do you estimate your plane spends outside (UV exposure)?
thanks again for sharing!


p.s. I don’t think amendment of the AD is the solution- I heartily agree that sharing info on forums is the best help

[Steve Pierce]

I think there are two issues, one being poor fabric attachment in that area that the metal plate and screws help mechanically attach. Two is fraying of the fabric behind the windshield. That is a low pressure area, the fuselage acts like a wing and the constant ballooning of that fabric. Depicted in the other thread in the picture of my Dad's Clipper.

[Stephen]

Installing the Steve's Skylight STC solves this problem. The fabric is wrapped around a tube aft out of the low pressure area, then overlapped with Acrylic.

[Spdcrazy]

Lots of good points here. My preflights have a bit more beef to them now for sure. Even with my A&P schooling, I am very inexperienced with fabric. They didn’t teach anything more than a 25 question quiz where the instructor couldn’t pronounce butyrate. Granted, none of us could. But you get what I am saying. I pushed hard for more knowledge but didn’t have the right people around to teach me. I know more now, and I will know a lot more when I get done helping rebuild my pacer. Just makes for an expensive classroom.

in part, my lack of experience didn’t allow me to recognize the issue that ultimately took me down. I just want the world to know and understand this issue in hopes to keep it from causing another bird to go down. We need all the pilots and all the short wing pipers we can to be flying, not in a mangled pile in the corner of a hangar