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Thread: Vermont Clipper

  1. #31
    Gilbert Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vermont Clipper

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBill View Post
    Now that is a great picture, seeing the full pixel one you used to show how the fabric lifts above the windscreen. A-1!
    The EAA shot that picture plus about another 300 in 09.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Vermont Clipper

    a lot of gems in this thread ! I forget who told me about the anti-theft switch, "if somebody's young enough to jump in the Clipper they won't be able to find the starter, and if they know where the starter is they're probably too old to jump in..."

    good luck with your "new" plane Doyle, my sister in-law lives in Plainfield and we'll be up that way at some point... Cheers
    Last edited by blue44; 11-17-2020 at 06:12 PM.
    Donn
    1949 Clipper PA-16 O-235

  3. #33
    VTClipper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vermont Clipper

    Quote Originally Posted by blue44 View Post
    a lot of gems in this thread ! I forget who told me about the anti-theft switch, "if somebody's young enough to jump in the Clipper they won't be able to find the starter, and if they know where the starter is they're probably too old to jump in..."

    good luck with your "new" plane Doyle, my sister in-law lives in Plainfield and we'll be up that way at some point... Cheers
    Hi Donn. That’s a good laugh and now I’m going to figure out what the original location was just for fun. Please give a shout when you fly to VT. I reckon KMPV is closest to Plainfield and I bet we could squeeze a second Clipper in my hangar.

  4. #34
    VTClipper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Show us your Shortwing! (Pictures)

    Quote Originally Posted by PA-16 View Post
    and the anti theft is the starter switch, it was down in the bottom corner under the left seat, looks like yours has something else there now, some wires coming out of what used to be the start button, I will attach a copy of a 50 Pacer poh, there is no real Clipper poh, the 1950 115 Pacer poh has lots of info that the Clipper AFM doesnt have, differences between the Clipper and Pacer but some info in the Pacer handbook is the same.
    Thanks for the link to the ‘50 Pacer POH...! That’s very helpful as I educate myself on the PA 16.

    I based my ‘47 Luscombe on VT grass strips for most of the 17 years I owned it and fully understand all the advantages of flying off the lawn. But the hangar I was able to lease is at KMPV and I try to commute to Burlington as often as possible so keeping the Clipper straight on the tar is a vital skill. I fully plan to touch down on all the grass strips I can next summer, especially places that have the grass strip right next to the paved.

    Thanks or all the info—so appreciated...!

  5. #35
    VTClipper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vermont Clipper

    Spent some time with the Clipper in the Hangar on Thanksgiving Day, firstly being super thankful I own this sweet little Piper and having some time to burn before stuffing myself with...stuffing. Between my work schedule, short days and crappy weather I haven’t been able to get back in the air with it recently but have spent time making some tail-flying taxi runs down 35-17 getting a better feel for the dainty rudder inputs and proper aileron placement the Clipper requires to roll straight. While actual flying is certainly preferred, taxi driving is fun in its own way and I’m getting a better feel for the airplane.

    As MPV was so fogged in on turkey day taxi runs weren’t even possible I took my time and grabbed a few photos of areas I’d seen discussed here in SWP and thought I’d share them.

    First, here is the windshield/top fabric connection at this time. Honestly, even tho seemingly stuck down well and not Cotton fabric it looks sketchy, especially after reading recent posts regarding top fabric separating, resulting in some very scary sounding situations for a couple pilots. I have already purchased Steve’s Skylight STC and this image is all the push I need to get busy on fabricating the required parts and making that modification happen. That, and even tho I’m only 5’9” in stature, the left side of my headset rubs against the headliner when I’m sitting in the left seat which is really an annoyance. Not to mention, as has been noted in this forum often, looking out of the Clipper is a bit like peering out of a tunnel. I really look forward to the extra headroom and being to see over the wings when banked.

    B5BDF945-B313-40A1-93DA-E20E17D05F2F.jpeg

    One of the first things I noticed about this particular Clipper the first time I flew it was the rudder cables were very slack until I put my feet on the rudders. Kinda disconcerting because I felt this might cause a cable to come off a pulley and jam. It seems the rudder tensioning springs on each side of the cabin are, as an Englishman mechanic might say, ‘Knackerd’ of ‘Perished’ (Tip of the hat to Edd China of the tv show ‘Wheeler Dealers’) and need replaced. Investigating the Univair PA 16 parts catalog I learned there is no illustrated PA 16 parts catalog, nothing but pages of obscure part numbers. Any help identifying proper replacement springs would be most welcome. These current springs look like they came from the PMA rack at a local Ace hardware.

    43514A7D-249D-449C-B5BC-AF78D4D76062.jpeg

    A close look at the Data Plate shows the date of manufacture is missing. I guess this detail was overlooked when I first saw it prior to purchase. Cue head-scratching emoji. I reached out to Clyde The Cub Doctor inquiring if he may have an actual record of 16-251’s birthday.

    266D49A0-A81D-49DA-A783-BD317EF9FF63.jpeg

    The left fuel cap points a bit too much right for my liking when twisted to its stop. Is this a problem with the fuel cap or the tank neck...? I also think these will get a coat of burgundy paint when I paint the VG’s that are being added.

    89231FF9-9228-4B0C-A9D8-AF8154DF551A.jpeg

    I read with great interest the (literally) hundreds of posts regarding the Hawker SBS J16 battery. The aircraft logbook show this battery was installed at annual this past July. The prior owner flew the Clipper at least a couple times a week, accumulating 20 or so hours between annual and when I purchased in early October. The flight to new home was trouble-free and uneventful and I carefully verified the master was off and no ELT activation when I pushed it into the hangar. I came back a few days later, rolled it outside, gave it a few shots of prime and thumbed the starter button. An unenthusiastic half blade spin was the result. Released the button, counted 3 and stabbed it again. The second try spun 2 or 3 revs, the 0-320 came to life and I verified the Alternator Field Switch was on, the light was out and the Ammeter showed normal charging. I taxied around for a half hour or so with the radio and taxi light on, getting up to 1500 rpm or so on my runway runs, each starting with a 1700 rpm run-up & mag check just so I got used to feeling and hearing what all that sounded like. I shut down at the terminal building for a quick relief break, making sure all electrics were off. When I came back out and attempted re-start a half blade was all it could muster...repeatedly. After several tries I gave up not feeling comfortable hand propping this engine (my Luscombe was hand prop only but I dunno, new airplane and 150HP...that’s how people end up in NTSB reports) and pushed it back to the hangar. Thankfully it was downhill with a tailwind. After a bit of struggle I learned how to get the front seat out to access the battery box. I hooked it up to a charger at 2 amps and let it charge overnight. When I returned the following day the charger indicated ‘full charge’. I disconnected, re-attached the seat, rolled it outside and hit the start button. The blade swung thru 2 revs on the first push this time but still didn’t feel as snappy as I thought it should, but the engine started. 45 minutes of tail flying, feeling better about keeping it on centerline (full throttle of course is it’s own story) I pulled back to the hangar and shut down. All electrics off. I spent some time checking for any leaks, loose fasteners and just looking, feeling, smelling the airplane getting to know it better. I slid back in after about 20 minutes, master on, mags on, throttle cracked, stab starter button....half a blade. Well...I said some unkind things about the battery as I made several attempts to re-start. Finally I again gave up, at least this time only having to push it back into the hangar.

    So, all that backstory out there, is it possible the battery is just no good so soon...? After reading how much everyone loves the Hawker in all the posts (and my friend has one in his C180 and has nothing but good to say about it) I’m a bit puzzled. Cue head-scratching emoji again. I did go to Battery Mart online and bought another one on the chance the one that I got with the Clipper was somehow bad. Anyhow...

    9D2156E3-B360-4D2D-8E09-ADF64E72D905.jpeg

    And this I believe is the new started solenoid under the seat on the left side. It all looks sano to me and all the grounds and fittings are tight and solid as well.

    859219EF-28B4-40C9-9123-28195A135E38.jpeg

    Ok, this post has turned into a bit of a dissertation but it’s a quiet Sunday night on the couch with my lovely wife and nothing is on the TV (what did Bruce Sringsteen sing about ‘57 channels and nothing’s on’. Now it’s 300 channels and same story) so I thought I’d write some about the Clipper...which I think of all the time and can’t wait till I get to fly it again.
    Last edited by VTClipper; 11-29-2020 at 08:46 PM.

  6. #36
    Gilbert Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vermont Clipper

    The only purpose for the rudder pedal springs is to keep the pedals from flopping backward on to the floor when you take your feet off of them. Like wise the cables are also loose without your feet on the pedals. One thing you need to check in regards to the pedals is that you have enough throw to move the rudder from stop to stop without the pedals hitting the firewall tubing. If that happens you need to shorten the cables back the rudder yoke.

    I have found when taxing the Clipper to look way down the runway. Doing that you will see very small deviations before they become big deviations. The Clipper is very sensitive to the rudder in flight as well. My Clipper likes a little leading rudder pressure prior to rolling into a turn.

    They are sweet flying airplanes once you get comfortable with them.

    Your slow turning prop on start maybe something as simple as a high resistance connection between the battery and the starter. With mags off try and run the starter thru a few blades and feel the connections at the battery, solenoid and starter. If you have a hot one that is probably your problem.
    I have fixed more than one slow start by tightening the offending connection that was hot.
    Last edited by Gilbert Pierce; 11-29-2020 at 09:44 PM.

  7. #37

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    Default Re: Vermont Clipper

    752D11A7-F53D-4A0A-B569-117E393AA645.jpegWith regards to the data plate, no Clippers left the factory with the date field filled in. The data plate is supposed to be on the diagonal tube in the tail below and aft of the trim assembly. It was mounted prior to covering the fuselage, so the actual date of manufacture was unknown when it was installed. CAR 2 (the regulation covering data plates in 1949) didn’t require a date. (Not sure why, but the picture loaded upside down)
    Last edited by dgapilot; 11-29-2020 at 09:50 PM.

  8. #38
    VTClipper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vermont Clipper

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilbert Pierce View Post
    The only purpose for the rudder pedal springs is to keep the pedals from flopping backward on to the floor when you take your feet off of them. Like wise the cables are also loose without your feet on the pedals. One thing you need to check in regards to the pedals is that you have enough throw to move the rudder from stop to stop without the pedals hitting the firewall tubing. If that happens you need to shorten the cables back the rudder yoke.

    I have found when taxing the Clipper to look way down the runway. Doing that you will see very small deviations before they become big deviations. The Clipper is very sensitive to the rudder in flight as well. My Clipper likes a little leading rudder pressure prior to rolling into a turn.

    They are sweet flying airplanes once you get comfortable with them.

    Your slow turning prop on start maybe something as simple as a high resistance connection between the battery and the starter. With mags off try and run the starter thru a few blades and feel the connections at the battery, solenoid and starter. If you have a hot one that is probably your problem.
    I have fixed more than one slow start by tightening the offending connection that was hot.
    Thank you Gilbert. I will check the throw of the rudders, and also for hot, high resistance connections. I did check grounds and connections to battery and starter solenoid but not actually at the starter. Will do that.

    And yes, my first tailwheel instructor was Terry Politi at Lake Placid NY who owned a PA 16 and is close friends with the gent I bought my Luscombe from. His very first instruction was to look waaaaaaay down the runway. Never forgot it. And also I just need to relax a bit and get better at feeling the airplane. In the air it feels just like a fast clipped wing Cub. I just loved flying it. Rolls so smooth and sweet with hardly any adverse yaw, unlike the Luscombe and Citabria. I always led the Luscombe with rudder in turns and I felt that in the Clipper too. Looking forward to when I get to fly it regularly and it becomes familiar to me. Thanks again...
    Last edited by VTClipper; 11-29-2020 at 10:08 PM.

  9. #39
    VTClipper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vermont Clipper

    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    752D11A7-F53D-4A0A-B569-117E393AA645.jpegWith regards to the data plate, no Clippers left the factory with the date field filled in. The data plate is supposed to be on the diagonal tube in the tail below and aft of the trim assembly. It was mounted prior to covering the fuselage, so the actual date of manufacture was unknown when it was installed. CAR 2 (the regulation covering data plates in 1949) didn’t require a date. (Not sure why, but the picture loaded upside down)
    Thanks for the history...! The Cub Doc already got back to me and let me know my Clipper was born on May 20th 1949. Just makes my day to know that and as you note, he said no build dates on any DPs. I he offered to send me my Clipper’s build sheet for a very reasonable fee and I can’t wait to get it.

    Thanks again for the history.

  10. #40
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vermont Clipper

    I have replaced a few Hawker batteries that failed early. Had one that was installed new in June. Spruce warranted it. I charged it fully and then checked it with a load tester to be sure that was the issue since.

    The Clipper has a standard, vented fuel cap. Have not seen a snorkle cap on the wing tank, only on the nose tank. The original left wing tank is different than the later PA18, 20 and 22. The filler neck is not centered and I have seen the offset you pictured when using Atlee Dodge or Univair fuel caps that have a fore/aft handle on top of them.

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