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Thread: Starter button Hot with Master OFF

  1. #1

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    Default Starter button Hot with Master OFF

    Starter button Hot with Master OFF....Has anyone else experienced this. I know it states in the Owners Handbook, "The starter cannot be operated unless the Master Switch is on".
    aircraft SN is in 22-1 to 22-3878
    Anyone have any information or comments. The aircraft is not currently in a flyable status.

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Starter button Hot with Master OFF

    Mine is a 53 and has it down under the pilot, it is always hot.

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Old3pacer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starter button Hot with Master OFF

    My 56 is only hot when the master switch is up or down. When it is in the middle position (off) the starter is not hot.

  4. #4
    siouxpilot77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starter button Hot with Master OFF

    Quote Originally Posted by C175SKYLARK View Post
    Starter button Hot with Master OFF....Has anyone else experienced this. I know it states in the Owners Handbook, "The starter cannot be operated unless the Master Switch is on".
    aircraft SN is in 22-1 to 22-3878
    Anyone have any information or comments. The aircraft is not currently in a flyable status.
    PA-20 and early PA-22 the starter is wired directly to the battery. Itís always hot. They changed it in later models.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Gilbert Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starter button Hot with Master OFF

    If you don’t have a master and start solenoid your starter button is always hot. That’s probably one reason it’s hidden under the seat plus it would be difficult to run the 00 starter cable to the instrument panel and then to the starter.

    Personally I like mine that way. Two less electro-mechanical devices to fail. And they will fail one day.

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Starter button Hot with Master OFF

    I guess that makes sense from what I see in the box, My start switch looks similar to the item 59 on page 143 of parts book and no solenoid as shown as item 75 for SN's3877 & 3880 & up.

    Thanks for the info

    PA-20 and early PA-22 the starter is wired directly to the battery. Itís always hot. They changed it in later models.

  7. #7
    Glen Geller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starter button Hot with Master OFF

    On early Shortwings, up THRU 1955, the big starter button was connected directly to the battery and the button (a tractor starter button!) carried all the electrical load of cranking the engine over.
    In 1956, Piper changed the design and added a starter solenoid (also called a relay or contactor) that was actuated by a smaller button switch.
    Dwg 13466 shows the Switch Box of a Tri-Pacer 1953~55, there is no starter solenoid, just that big button.
    Dwg 15146 shows the Switch Box system of the Colt, the final design in the Shortwing series, with a starter solenoid.
    Note there is NO MASTER solenoid; the electrical load of the aircraft, and the charging power from generator/alternator, goes thru the master switch to the battery.
    In the Cherokee and later series, there is a master solenoid and a starter solenoid.
    Modern electrical design would add a diode to the solenoids to avoid high voltage spikes as the solenoid is DEACTVATED.
    Some info on master & starter relays and adding diodes s found here: https://verticalpower.com/media/atta...tor_wiring.pdf

    If you have never opened the little box containing the master switch, starter button and fuse block, you might want to roll the left seat back and remove the switch box cover to see what's in there, and confirm you have spare fuses onboard in case you blow one.


    GG
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  8. #8

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    Default Re: Starter button Hot with Master OFF

    Thanks Glenn. I was surprised that the start switch was hot. I would not have known about the hot switch had I not attempted to start before turning on the master. After the fact I inspected the master box. I previously owned a 56 & inspecting the wiring condition in the master box, I noticed the different starter button. My current is a 1955, previously owned by a Howard Wilson.
    Thanks again

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