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Thread: Any chance my plane will sell with only the past 4 years of logs?

  1. #1
    rmwalkersr's Avatar
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    Default Any chance my plane will sell with only the past 4 years of logs?

    According to the FAA records, right wing damage on N3407Z was repaired in 1984 (and the repairs were perfect!). When the valve stuck on the #3 cylinder, I opted to have the entire engine torn down to inspect the crankshaft. I suspected a prop-strike back in 1984 since the propeller was replaced when the wing was repaired. I was right. The crankshaft failed the dye test. We replaced the crankshaft with a heavy duty yellow-tagged crank. Divco rebuilt the case. Lycon polished and balanced the new Lycoming cylinders. The plane flies beautifully now behind a strong powerplant with only 75 hours since the field overhaul (+ about 4 hours each week to keep it fresh).
    I have it listed for $29,500 and would take the first $28K so that we can pay off debt now that we're down to one income. That's my bottom dollar, otherwise I'll part it out for about $33K.
    The logs were never passed along from the estate of a former deceased owner.
    Any advice would be appreciated. If lost logs are such a deal breaker I'll just begin parting her out. But she flies so straght and strong that I'm hesitant to do that.
    Opinions welcome, thanks,
    Bob Walker
    Yuma, AZ

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Any chance my plane will sell with only the past 4 years of logs?

    You are required to have the records called out in 91.417


    Sec. 91.417

    Maintenance records.

    (a) Except for work performed in accordance with Secs. 91.411 and 91.413, each registered owner or operator shall keep the following records for the periods specified in paragraph (b) of this section:
    (1) Records of the maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alteration and records of the 100-hour, annual, progressive, and other required or approved inspections, as appropriate, for each aircraft (including the airframe) and each engine, propeller, rotor, and appliance of an aircraft. The records must include--
    (i) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the Administrator) of the work performed; and
    (ii) The date of completion of the work performed; and
    (iii) The signature, and certificate number of the person approving the aircraft for return to service.
    (2) Records containing the following information:
    (i) The total time in service of the airframe, each engine, each propeller, and each rotor.
    (ii) The current status of life-limited parts of each airframe, engine, propeller, rotor, and appliance.
    (iii) The time since last overhaul of all items installed on the aircraft which are required to be overhauled on a specified time basis.
    (iv) The current inspection status of the aircraft, including the time since the last inspection required by the inspection program under which the aircraft and its appliances are maintained.
    [ (v) The current status of applicable airworthiness directives (AD) and safety directives including, for each, the method of compliance, the AD or safety directive number and revision date. If the AD or safety directive involves recurring action, the time and date when the
    next action is required.]
    (vi) Copies of the forms prescribed by Sec. 43.9(a) of this chapter for each major alteration to the airframe and currently installed engines, rotors, propellers, and appliances.
    (b) The owner or operator shall retain the following records for the periods prescribed:
    (1) The records specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section shall be retained until the work is repeated or superseded by other work or for 1 year after the work is performed.
    (2) The records specified in paragraph (a)(2) of this section shall be retained and transferred with the aircraft at the time the aircraft is sold.
    (3) A list of defects furnished to a registered owner or operator under Sec. 43.11 of this chapter shall be retained until the defects are repaired and the aircraft is approved for return to service.
    (c) The owner or operator shall make all maintenance records required to be kept by this section available for inspection by the Administrator or any authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). In addition, the owner or operator shall present Form 337 described in paragraph (d) of this section for inspection upon request of any law
    enforcement officer.
    (d) When a fuel tank is installed within the passenger compartment or a baggage compartment pursuant to part 43 of this chapter, a copy of FAA Form 337 shall be kept on board the modified aircraft by the owner or operator.


    Lots of owners want more, but this is all that is required.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    deandayton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any chance my plane will sell with only the past 4 years of logs?

    Buyers like to see logs all the way back to the factory. But I know of several airplanes with lost logs. That have been sold. If the plane is in good shape and the records you have look good it's not a dealbreaker for most buyers.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Any chance my plane will sell with only the past 4 years of logs?

    Seems to me the hardest part of "reconstructing" logs is determining total time, and time since overhaul. (sounds like you already know TSMOH)

    Sounds like you already have all info from the FAA. Were you lucky enough for any of the documents to include engine, and prop serial numbers, and tach time, compared to total time? This is the tough one, as most mechanics don't include this info on 337's. IF nothing gives the Tach/Total relationship, AND IF the tach 'appears' to be original (with 'believable' hours), then who's to say it's NOT the original tach (therefor showing total time)? I hear Clyde Smith has the 'build sheets' for most of our planes; maybe the build sheet has the serial number for the tach?

    By the way, it sounds like you have had the plane several years,, what has your IA's been putting down as TT?

    Major repairs and alterations should be recorded with the FAA, worst case you may have to pay an IA to confirm (in writing, in the logs) that the repair/alteration was done correctly). Compliance on all AD's will have to be confirmed.

    Obviously, all paper work since new is very desirable, but it doesn't seem like a reason to scrap a perfectly good plane. When you try to sell the fuselage/engine/prop, don't you think the buyer is going to want the logs? Go talk to an inspector at your FSDO, and explain your predicament, I know (some of) the inspectors at the ICT FSDO are very friendly, reasonable and are actually interested in helping.

    I suppose you have 'done the math' figuring on the value of parting out the plane (I have not), but I would venture a guess that it will take DECADES to sell every single part individually, most likely running up big $$ in storage fees, advertisement, etc.

  5. #5
    Stephen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any chance my plane will sell with only the past 4 years of logs?

    I would be mostly interested in engine records showing the last engine tear down, AD compliance, record of 337's showing major alterations and repairs and the last few annual inspections. Plus, a good pre sale inspection. My airframe logs go back to 1980. Since then the fuselage has been stripped twice with a complete rebuild and has had many modifications. There is nothing in the lost log book that is of value.
    "You can only tie the record for flying low."

  6. #6
    sierrasplitter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any chance my plane will sell with only the past 4 years of logs?

    It will depend on the buyer . Its not a game stopper . My plane had good logs back to 1997 but from 1956-1997 it’s a bit here and there . I like the plane , had a good pre-buy , the seller seemed trustworthy so I bought my plane
    I paid the asking price and love it . Again depends on
    buyer , seller and plane condition . Don’t sweat it , LIST IT !

  7. #7
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any chance my plane will sell with only the past 4 years of logs?

    People will try to beat you up on every little thing.

  8. #8

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    Default Re: Any chance my plane will sell with only the past 4 years of logs?

    I wouldn’t part it out. A Tri-Pacer is not like a C-185 or Cirrus, I imagine you could do pretty well on planes that keep a high value. There are plenty of PA-22’s in hangars across the country that were taken apart to recover, and for whatever reason, were never returned to airworthiness. There are also quite a few PA-22’s already being parted out, so you would be competing with them.

    It might seem like there are no buyers looking at your plane, and incomplete logs will scare off some for sure, but it will sell. Give it a month or two and the right buyer will come along. I have been thinking of calling you on your plane, but lack of affordable hangars nearby is keeping me from getting another plane.

  9. #9
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any chance my plane will sell with only the past 4 years of logs?

    I would put together all the documentation you have so that it is obvious to the perspective buyer what you have, when things were done, AD compliance etc. I hate seeing these airplanes parted out. I also wonder if and how long it would take to get you asking price parting it out.

  10. #10
    Stephen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any chance my plane will sell with only the past 4 years of logs?

    Unless, you have lots of time, Parting it out counting labor and shipping is not cheap.
    "You can only tie the record for flying low."

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