Tank removal

[Steve Pierce]

dgapilot,

Just spoke to our national tech manager about an Earth X as it would be a big weight saving. He said that there was a recent runaway here with the battery destroying the plane. I didn’t ask any further so I don’t know any installation details. I think I will take the odyssey at this time until further enquires.

Pacer42Z, the Armstrong starter isn’t what it used to be.!

Ken

I would ask for the details on the EarthX runaway. There is built in circuitry and it there should be an over voltage relay and a way to kill the field.

Here is a good read. https://earthxbatteries.com/lithium-...ental-aircraft
and another. https://earthxbatteries.com/understa...hium-batteries

[dgapilot]

dgapilot,

Just spoke to our national tech manager about an Earth X as it would be a big weight saving. He said that there was a recent runaway here with the battery destroying the plane. I didn’t ask any further so I don’t know any installation details. I think I will take the odyssey at this time until further enquires.

Pacer42Z, the Armstrong starter isn’t what it used to be.!

Ken

That’s why the TSO says it can only be used with an alternator with an external regulator. It also requires a battery warning light and bus voltage monitoring.

The possibility of fire even with all the warnings and monitoring is why it is going forward of the firewall, and not under my seat!


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[dgapilot]

dgapilot,

Just spoke to our national tech manager about an Earth X as it would be a big weight saving. He said that there was a recent runaway here with the battery destroying the plane. I didn’t ask any further so I don’t know any installation details. I think I will take the odyssey at this time until further enquires.

Pacer42Z, the Armstrong starter isn’t what it used to be.!

Ken

I would think if it was one of the TSO batteries that had the fire, we will be seeing an AD before long. I suspect it was one of the commercial batteries and not the TSO one, most likely in a homebuilt with an internally regulated alternator like the Denso alternators. I’ve had guys ask me to approve those alternators, and I know there are a lot of field approvals out there, but the failure mode for them is to go overvoltage . While the probability is low, I don’t feel comfortable with them in an airplane.


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[Gilbert Pierce]

I spent some time in alternator engineering and manufacturing. I would never feel comfortable with an internally regulated alternator in an airplane. They typically do not have what’s called a “crowbar” over voltage disconnect circuit.

[Glen Geller]

dgapilot,

Just spoke to our national tech manager about an Earth X as it would be a big weight saving. He said that there was a recent runaway here with the battery destroying the plane. I didn’t ask any further so I don’t know any installation details. I think I will take the odyssey at this time until further enquires.

Pacer42Z, the Armstrong starter isn’t what it used to be.!

Ken

Hi Ken,
As you may be aware, there is an STC in the US to install lightweight battery and upgrade the electrical system.
Food for thought, it can be supporting evidence for the safety of these batteries.
https://svennsaviation.com/product/s...-installation/

Would it be feasible to mount the battery and relay on the firewall and remove a few pounds of copper cable from the starter cable length etc?

Good luck and please post a few photos of your plane in a new thread ("Aussie Colt Reborn"?), before the tear down and as you progress.

GG

[Jeff J]

I spent some time in alternator engineering and manufacturing. I would never feel comfortable with an internally regulated alternator in an airplane. They typically do not have what’s called a “crowbar” over voltage disconnect circuit.

Plane power has one that is internally regulated with the “crowbar” protection. I put one in my Thorp a few years ago after the Denso came apart on me.

[Kenlsa]

Thanks everyone for the info.

Just to expand on the numbers......the Colt left the factory at 982.9 lbs (has an advertised/nominal weight of 985, so was close but ended up at 1020 when placed on our register )
The most notable weight increase for Airworthiness in Australia was the inclusion of 2 fire extinguishers, talk about belt and braces! Maybe the thinking then was to land and assist with bush fires.......

Ken

[tnowak]

Ken,

Out of interest, what rule or regulation was changed by your Australian CAA to allow the Piper Colt to move into the different airworthiness category?
It would be good if the UK CAA allowed something similar.

TonyN

[Kenlsa]

Tony,
while I don’t know the actual regulation I can give a bit of an overview.

RAAus (recreational aviation Australia) is the governing body for recreational pilots and aircraft. In years gone by we had weight increases in MTOW from 300kg incrementally thru to 544kg over 20 years.
This ‘power’ was granted to us by way of an exemption to the normal CASA rules (civil aviation safety authority) that is our General Aviation authority.

later with the rest of the world that exemption increased to 600kg that we call LSA, but ours is a little different in that we have no limit on top speed and retractable undercarriage is allowed. Max stall is 45kts in landing configuration

when this happened some wanted to get the lighter GA aircraft onto the LSA register, so 150, Colt, Ercoup RV 6/7 and the like were allowed to fly if they had a MTOW of 600 kg. It appears that some had to remove the second seat and controls to run them as single seaters to make the break, but for someone who lost their medical it did not matter.

There is now a formula that includes pax, fuel, oil ( there may be other requirements but I did not ask, I was told that my Colt was to weigh 413 empty)

Now our organisation doesn’t want to operate under an exemption and is seeking power (Part149) to be wholly responsible for all operations. This includes entry into Controlled Airspace and weight increase to 760kg and later 1500kg, max 2 persons.

All this should happen, after consultation in the new year but CASA has still mandated that a LAME look after any plane over 600kg. This may change in a few years once they are satisfied that owners know how to maintain their planes.

As you are aware many LSA are complex compared to a Colt etc so many of us can not understand why the reluctance to allow self maintenance.

I have removed a lot of weight from the Colt and worked out the savings with starter, gen battery etc and should come out at about 405kg

So I guess we go from a Pacer, Tri Pacer Colt and when completed perhaps a “Foal” at LSA weight.

Ken

[tnowak]

Ken,

Thanks for the info. Will see what our authorities have to say.
TonyN