FW mounted battery??

[Spdcrazy]

I know some have done it when installed a FA Sutton exhaust. Or going experimental. However, my bird will have factory exhaust for now and will be certified.

is there room to have an odyssey battery up there? And if so, how has it been done legally? FA? Logbook entry?

for reference, I tend to use my pacer hard. I fly in the Brooks range and often on large rocked gravel bars. I load it heavy and fly a lot of hunting related shenanigans. I run a BBW and 29s for now. This build will incorporate trimmers Pa-18 gear and maule oleos also.

secondly, (and I am spitballing here) should I do it? I understand that some people have issues getting the tail low enough to be slow for backcountry type operations, I don’t feel I had this issue as I could land tail first any time I needed or wanted. This time around, I’ll have PA-18 tailfeathers, as well as a bit more weight waaay back there as I am having a second drag handle put in, and both will be oversized for ease of lifting. Also an extra tube will be added back there similarly to the “beef up” some Cubs have. Anyways. Considering W&B. I don’t know if the FW mounted battery is worthy it. I would like to have it out of the cabin. And having it where my engine preheated will warm it up wouldn’t hurt. I also ALWAYS fly with a well stocked survival bag behind the seat. I feel the FW mounted battery wouldn’t hinder me. And of course it would help keep offset any load I put in my airplane. Am I crazy for thinking this? Do you feel I am missing something?

Maybe, if the FW mounted battery and stock exhaust is an option. I just strategically place my 406 elt far enough back that the CG is appropriately located for any of my light weight flying?

[Steve Pierce]

Can be done with a logbook entry. Read AC 43.13-2B Chapter 10 on lead acid batteries. I would run some weight and balance numbers. Not sure you need the weight that far forward myself.

[dgapilot]

I’m putting an EarthX battery on the firewall, with the Sutton exhaust (PA-16). I’m not sure you would have enough room with a stock exhaust, and you don’t want all that heat right next to the battery. Mine is done with a field approval since the entire electrical system design is different (master solenoid, starter solenoid, alternator . . .

Like Steve said, for a lead acid battery, AC43.13-1b gives you the data you need, as the installer, you need to determine if it’s a major alteration or a Minor alteration. AC43-210A is your friend, use the flow chart to help make that decision.


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[Spdcrazy]

Can be done with a logbook entry. Read AC 43.13-2B Chapter 10 on lead acid batteries. I would run some weight and balance numbers. Not sure you need the weight that far forward myself.

I am not sure either. But I’d like to be more knowledgeable on it for sure. Are you verifying that there is room with the factory exhaust?

as DGApilot mentioned, too much heat is also something I’ll be looking into. It’s not warm up here often, but the interior gets some warm days for sure.

[Spdcrazy]

I’m putting an EarthX battery on the firewall, with the Sutton exhaust (PA-16). I’m not sure you would have enough room with a stock exhaust, and you don’t want all that heat right next to the battery. Mine is done with a field approval since the entire electrical system design is different (master solenoid, starter solenoid, alternator . . .

Like Steve said, for a lead acid battery, AC43.13-1b gives you the data you need, as the installer, you need to determine if it’s a major alteration or a Minor alteration. AC43-210A is your friend, use the flow chart to help make that decision.


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I don’t think I have ever read up on 43-210A! Looks like a wealth of knowledge. I have been struggling lately with what is and what isn’t a FA or a logbook entry. This might help me. Thank you!

[T. Bix]

Don't want to hijack the thread, but are there any other battery relocation mods that are useful/popular? I was actually thinking the other direction. I have a TW colt and have heard that the further aft I can get the CG the better it'll land. As it is it is impossible to load it out of the CG envelope. Mods: If this should have it's own thread please delete or move.

[dgapilot]

I don’t think I have ever read up on 43-210A! Looks like a wealth of knowledge. I have been struggling lately with what is and what isn’t a FA or a logbook entry. This might help me. Thank you!

If you want to start educating yourself on the Major Alteration/Minor Alteration, approved data questions I have a PowerPoint that I made up a couple years ago for IA seminars that I’ve shared with anyone that asks. It may be a little dated as some of the references have been updated.

Start with the definitions in 14CFR 1.1, then the definition of Major Change in Type Design in 14 CFR 21.93 then Appendix A of 14 CFR 43. That covers the regulatory part. AC 43-210A shows in flowchart form how to use that information. FAA Order 8300.16A then goes into detail on what can be considered Approved Data. Finally the AFS-300 Major Repair and Alteration job aid walks you through the level of certification required for various types of Major Alterations.


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[dgapilot]

Don't want to hijack the thread, but are there any other battery relocation mods that are useful/popular? I was actually thinking the other direction. I have a TW colt and have heard that the further aft I can get the CG the better it'll land. As it is it is impossible to load it out of the CG envelope. Mods: If this should have it's own thread please delete or move.

Moving aft for W&B purposes has some plus and some minus. On the minus, longer wires means more voltage drop or heavier cable. Having a large mass towards the extreme of the envelope could have some unforeseen consequences for spin recovery.

I agree, most airplanes land better with aft CG, and will fly faster with aft cg. But like everything in aviation, you don’t get something for nothing!

In my case, I had removed enough weight forward of the firewall, adding back 5 or 6 lbs is actually a good thing.


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[Subsonic]

I know some have done it when installed a FA Sutton exhaust. Or going experimental. However, my bird will have factory exhaust for now and will be certified.

is there room to have an odyssey battery up there? And if so, how has it been done legally? FA? Logbook entry?

for reference, I tend to use my pacer hard. I fly in the Brooks range and often on large rocked gravel bars. I load it heavy and fly a lot of hunting related shenanigans. I run a BBW and 29s for now. This build will incorporate trimmers Pa-18 gear and maule oleos also.

secondly, (and I am spitballing here) should I do it? I understand that some people have issues getting the tail low enough to be slow for backcountry type operations, I don’t feel I had this issue as I could land tail first any time I needed or wanted. This time around, I’ll have PA-18 tailfeathers, as well as a bit more weight waaay back there as I am having a second drag handle put in, and both will be oversized for ease of lifting. Also an extra tube will be added back there similarly to the “beef up” some Cubs have. Anyways. Considering W&B. I don’t know if the FW mounted battery is worthy it. I would like to have it out of the cabin. And having it where my engine preheated will warm it up wouldn’t hurt. I also ALWAYS fly with a well stocked survival bag behind the seat. I feel the FW mounted battery wouldn’t hinder me. And of course it would help keep offset any load I put in my airplane. Am I crazy for thinking this? Do you feel I am missing something?

Maybe, if the FW mounted battery and stock exhaust is an option. I just strategically place my 406 elt far enough back that the CG is appropriately located for any of my light weight flying?

It sounds like you don't weigh your loads, or know where your CG is when you fly with all this hunting equipment, or you would not be questioning whether it is a good idea to move the battery forward...Just sayin'. If you do weigh the stuff you haul and know where your gross is and where your CG is, are you having trouble getting the weight distribution far enough forward? Else, why move the battery forward and go to the effort to rewire everything and get it approved? Also, the stock muffler and heat-box on the right side get pretty hot. I would not want to thermally cycle my battery with the extremes you likely encounter in your environment by mounting it right next to those heat sources. If it were me, and it's not, I'd just put the new lightweight battery in the original box with some pine board spacers to take up the extra volume and call it good. You save some weight overall and don't complicate your life. My 2 cents.

[andya]

PM you regard powerpoint