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Thread: 57A going back together

  1. #11

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    Default Re: 57A going back together

    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    You can't put wide deck cylinders on a narrow deck engine!
    More than likely they just installed 160 narrow deck cylinders on it... Not a big deal, just weird that they did not paint the base where the plates were originally..

    Walt... Hopefully you have standard 150 pistons in that engine and not high compression 160/180 pistons.. I have seen broken trough studs on an experimental that did just that. The higher compression pistons put enough strain on the studs and thinner cylinder flange to break the nuts off.. Which is the reason for the plates.. The plates spread that load over a larger area and thicken up the flange... Wide deck cylinders already have the thicker flange so do not need the plates..

    And in case you did not know... The "DECK" of the engine is the area that the cylinders are bolted too. Narrow deck have the internal 'acorn' style nuts and are slightly smaller stud arrangement.. Wide deck is slightly wider stud arrangement and larger 6 point nuts are used... You physically can not bolt a wide deck cylinder onto a narrow deck case due to that change in stud placement and vice versa narrow deck cylinder to a wide deck case.

    Brian.

  2. #12
    Dirt MrBill's Avatar
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    Default Re: 57A going back together

    Hey Brian, is there a marking on the top of the pistons one could check with a bore scope?
    Bill

  3. #13

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    Default Re: 57A going back together

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBill View Post
    Hey Brian, is there a marking on the top of the pistons one could check with a bore scope?
    Bill
    If they are clean enough you should be able to read the part numbers… problem is after a few
    Hours they build up enough residue to completely cover them…

    Real easy way is have a known150 0-320 piston… the 360 piston (which is the same one used for the 160 0-320) is visibly taller when set next to each other…

    Brian


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  4. #14

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    Default Re: 57A going back together

    Quote Originally Posted by stevesaircraft(Bri) View Post
    More than likely they just installed 160 narrow deck cylinders on it... Not a big deal, just weird that they did not paint the base where the plates were originally..

    Walt... Hopefully you have standard 150 pistons in that engine and not high compression 160/180 pistons.. I have seen broken trough studs on an experimental that did just that. The higher compression pistons put enough strain on the studs and thinner cylinder flange to break the nuts off.. Which is the reason for the plates.. The plates spread that load over a larger area and thicken up the flange... Wide deck cylinders already have the thicker flange so do not need the plates..

    And in case you did not know... The "DECK" of the engine is the area that the cylinders are bolted too. Narrow deck have the internal 'acorn' style nuts and are slightly smaller stud arrangement.. Wide deck is slightly wider stud arrangement and larger 6 point nuts are used... You physically can not bolt a wide deck cylinder onto a narrow deck case due to that change in stud placement and vice versa narrow deck cylinder to a wide deck case.

    Brian.
    Looks like the base is spot faced, how the 150hp cyl are. Had an annual on a supercub with new cyl and the part number was for 150cyl, but no spot face and the bases weren’t painted like there was supposed to be hold down plates


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  5. #15
    walt.buskey's Avatar
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    Default Re: 57A going back together

    I was confused, too, when I was reading Aerotec's report. Obviously, I'm relatively new to this kind of stuff, but I've never had a problem saying "I don't know."

    I did, however, see on their (very) extensive list of parts, the Lycoming part numbers that were used. Originally the idea was to use overhauled cylinders, but then I got a call and they told me they couldn't locate suitable --good enough, apparently-- cylinders for overhaul so I'd have to buy new ones, for which they gave me two choices --and how much extra $$ each would cost.

    After discussing with my A&P, we both agreed to use new Lycoming cylinders -- of course, the more expensive ones. This is the part number they have listed on the paperwork, a "Narrow Deck Series" cylinder/piston:

    Lyc Cyl Assy 05K21423A.jpg

    Not sure what they were referring to with the notes about "wide deck."


    Guess I'll have to put things on hold for a few days -- I just learned my A&P has taken off and gone to some place called "Osh-Kosh"..... (Hopefully, he'll meet some of you, maybe! -- Andy Gelston's his name)

    And Brian, thanks for the explanation -- I had to ask that question some years back (I had no idea what that referred to) so I did have a rough idea of what that meant, but your words made it even clearer. (Airplane engines are different, I've found....)

    Walt
    Last edited by walt.buskey; 07-24-2021 at 05:46 AM.

  6. #16
    walt.buskey's Avatar
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    Default Re: 57A going back together

    Here's some of the paperwork that came with the engine.

    DSC09754.jpg DSC09755.jpg

    And a close-up of the cylinder flanges.

    DSC09766.jpg

  7. #17

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    Default Re: 57A going back together

    Odd that they noted a conversion to wide deck cylinder flange when that is definitely not a wide deck cylinder… your close up shot of the flange makes it clear to me that they used narrow deck 160 cylinders.. I don’t think that is a deal breaker though as the only real difference between the 150 and 160 is the spot facing Tom mentioned and one less cooling fin for clearance of the plate and nut combination…

    I would however have a conversation with the builder… they should know the differences and note that correctly in the log books..

    Brian


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  8. #18
    Dirt MrBill's Avatar
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    Default Re: 57A going back together

    Lycoming sell the 160 narrow deck cylinder/150 piston combo? Wondering what they were thinking when they stated it being a wide deck conversion, wow? I would think they would have swapped out the cylinder studs and used the hold down plates even if the 160 pistons were not installed just in case somebody may take advantage of the 160 cyl's?
    I purchased the exact same cyl, part# 'n' all last year to have on hand as I watched a potential cylinder crack that never was. I had no idea it was a 160 cyl/150 piston ...maybe it is maybe it is not. So Walt if there are any measurements/markings or whatever you would like me to take from my unopened box let me know.
    Bill

  9. #19
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    Default Re: 57A going back together

    Hi Walt
    being an old engine guy.......
    and have done about 5000 cylinders
    "Houston we have a problem"
    those ain't wide deck cylinders
    either the paperwork or the cylinders aren't correct
    pick up the phone and call Aerotec- send them both pics and ask them what gives.
    it needs to be right

    Shane-o

    shane-o

  10. #20

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    Default 57A going back together

    Definitely not wide deck cylinders or crankcase. I would suggest you have a conversation with that overhaul shop and get it corrected. As an IA, I wouldn’t put my name to an annual with that engine and those entries. Just out of curiosity, in the list of parts replaced, did the list a new crank case? And if so, what part number?


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    Last edited by dgapilot; 07-24-2021 at 06:21 PM.

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