Welcome! Becoming a registered user of ShortWingPipers.Org is free and easy! Click the "Register" link found in the upper right hand corner of this screen. It's easy and you can then join the fun posting and learning about Short Wing Pipers!

Thanks Thanks:  0
Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Take-off / Landing distance required to clear a 50 foot or existing obstacle

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Take-off / Landing distance required to clear a 50 foot or existing obstacle

    Hello everyone. I will be using a 1956 Tripacer to complete my PPL, however I'm hung up on one part.


    Capture.PNG

    Circled in red are two Ground requirements that are needed to be determine prior to flying. The POH and AFM with the aircraft only contain the following details:

    Capture1.PNG

    however the figures here are not enough to calculate a take-off / landing distance required to clear a 50 foot or existing obstacle in other conditions.

    Can anyone assist?

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Frederick MD
    Posts
    1,668
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Take-off / Landing distance required to clear a 50 foot or existing obstacle

    Use a Koch chart. What you have is what was required for certification and the examiner cant ask any more than what the manufacturer provided, or what the certification requirements for the aircraft required.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Take-off / Landing distance required to clear a 50 foot or existing obstacle

    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    Use a Koch chart. What you have is what was required for certification and the examiner cant ask any more than what the manufacturer provided, or what the certification requirements for the aircraft required.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Thanks for your response. This may be the only course of action I can take. Hopefully the examiner will accept this.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Frederick MD
    Posts
    1,668
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Take-off / Landing distance required to clear a 50 foot or existing obstacle

    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyp View Post
    Thanks for your response. This may be the only course of action I can take. Hopefully the examiner will accept this.
    Best to talk to him about it ahead of time. You donít want a denial after you get there. If he wonít accept it, find a different examiner!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    59pacer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Mulgoa, Australia
    Posts
    458
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Take-off / Landing distance required to clear a 50 foot or existing obstacle

    If you're interested---
    up until about 40 years ago, our then Department of Civil Aviation (who knew that they knew everything that was possible to know about aviation) required that any new type coming into the country had to be flight tested to establish it's takeoff and landing performance. They would not accept that the FAA approved figures for the PA22 (for example) were at all reliable.
    The flight test data was then crunched and P charts were produced for takeoff and landing.
    The attached ones are for a PA22-160 Tripacer. Basically they were for a level, short dry grass strip. Allowance could be made for pressure altitude, temperature, weight, and head/tailwind.
    Takeoff was from a standing start, flaps 0, climb at Takeoff Safety Speed to 50ft.
    The landing was based on the stated minimum speed in a power off glide from 50 ft. and maximum braking.
    The distances obtained were then increased by 15% (ever conservative, our DCA).
    Of course, these had to be carried in an approved Flight Manual in the aircraft. That type of Flight Manual was purely an Australian thing and bore no relationship to anything else around the world. Talk about creating an empire to protect jobs!
    If you can't blow these up enough, I can post larger ones.

    IMG_3466.jpegIMG_3466.jpeg

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Frederick MD
    Posts
    1,668
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Take-off / Landing distance required to clear a 50 foot or existing obstacle

    Quote Originally Posted by 59pacer View Post
    If you're interested---
    up until about 40 years ago, our then Department of Civil Aviation (who knew that they knew everything that was possible to know about aviation) required that any new type coming into the country had to be flight tested to establish it's takeoff and landing performance. They would not accept that the FAA approved figures for the PA22 (for example) were at all reliable.
    The flight test data was then crunched and P charts were produced for takeoff and landing.
    The attached ones are for a PA22-160 Tripacer. Basically they were for a level, short dry grass strip. Allowance could be made for pressure altitude, temperature, weight, and head/tailwind.
    Takeoff was from a standing start, flaps 0, climb at Takeoff Safety Speed to 50ft.
    The landing was based on the stated minimum speed in a power off glide from 50 ft. and maximum braking.
    The distances obtained were then increased by 15% (ever conservative, our DCA).
    Of course, these had to be carried in an approved Flight Manual in the aircraft. That type of Flight Manual was purely an Australian thing and bore no relationship to anything else around the world. Talk about creating an empire to protect jobs!
    If you can't blow these up enough, I can post larger ones.

    IMG_3466.jpegIMG_3466.jpeg
    So how close were those charts to the Piper owners manual? Granted they only list a single condition, sea level standard day.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •