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Long backstory: I grew up flying with my dad in his Supercub, from the time I was born until I was 14. He put ~2500 hours in that cub during the time that he had it, but he had ran into financial issues and he had to sell it. This was 16 years ago and I had not been in a GA plane since, until last year when I started flight training for my PPL. My dad is in a little bit of a better position now, and he tossed around the idea of us getting a plane together to share, which I was perfectly fine with. I just told him I would have to leave the search up to him as I knew little of airplanes. He found a PA-22-160 not too far away, that was owned by the same person who happened to be an A&P/IA since the 70s. My dad wanted to stick with something familiar, as he trained on a Tripacer back in the 80s, and his cub had an O-320 in it as well. Supposedly had a fresh annual (by the owner) and was good to go. I asked about whether or not we should get someone independent to check it out, but my dad is a little old school and seemed to trust the guy 'on his word'. We ended up splitting the purchase price of the PA-22, and I flew it home ~2.5 hours with my instructor. There were no abnormalities or issues on the flight home. This was June of last 2022. We went to take it up a week later and when we turned the fuel on it started leaking from the gascolator. The only A&P that had any availability locally was the FBO A&P who was relatively new and unfamiliar with Tripacers. He couldn't get the gascolator to seal up so after reading up about them being a common problem we replaced it with Steve's gascolator. The next time we went to take it up it had a puddle of brake fluid underneath it. Every time we went to fly it for the next 4-5 times there was an issue with the brakes. The FBO A&P gave up and said it would probably be best if I found another A&P that had more experience with it and have them check it out. During this time it had accumulated ~5 hours of engine time, from both the initial flight and the ground running testing the brakes. After the last testing of the brakes I happened to check the oil and noticed what looked like a very very fine shiny dust in the oil. It was barely big enough to see any of the fragments, and I had to zoom in quite a bit to get it to show on camera. https://youtube.com/shorts/cbEg8eiXfU0?feature=share < Best video I could get of the oil. I took a sample of the oil and sent it off to Blackstone labs for analysis. Here are the results:oil analysis.PNG After this my instructor felt pretty bad that I was having so many issues, so he put me in touch with our flight school's IA. He's semi-retired, and only works on the flight school airplanes. He said he didn't do it for the money anymore, so the only way he would work on our plane was if I was willing to help it and learn from him, because he enjoyed teaching others how to take care of their planes. I accepted immediately, as I am mildly mechanically inclined and my dad actually had a mechanic shop for around the same amount of time he had the cub. I used to help out around there and picked up some things, but I am by no means an expert. He seems extremely knowledgeable, and seems to have very high opinions of short wing pipers. He said the O-320s are 'essentially bulletproof' and he's not too worried about it. We are planning on doing an annual this next week to double check everything and go from there.
The plane itself has roughly 755 hours total time on the airframe. It was last recovered in 2000, with superflite 102. Engine has ~600 SMOH, and ~83 since top. The major was performed in the 70s, and the top was done in 88 with chrome cylinders. It was originally a 160 HP, but was converted to a O320C2A engine with the lower compression pistons in order to use regular fuel.
After looking further into 'common' issues other people had in what seemed like similar situations, I was pretty concerned about camshaft corrosion since the plane was used in spurts. Some years he would only put 2-3 hours on it, but the most he put on it in a year was 30. The A&P I am working with with said he could pull a cylinder to look at the cam, but he really wouldn't worry about it if it was his. He said in his experience it seemed like the older engines had less issues with camshaft corrosion then the newer ones. He also said that since according to the logs a cylinder was replaced 4 engine hours ago, the metal we're seeing is probably just wear in on that cylinder.
Should I go ahead and pull a cylinder to check the cam? I just don't want to lose the engine midflight, as my skills are still very new. He seems to think even if I did have cam corrosion, it would be extremely rare for it to result in complete engine failure, and that it would just result in issues with the valves later on. It seems like the people on this site are very knowledgeable, and I am just looking for the experts advice as I do not know enough to make an educated decision. I don't ever want to risk my life to save a buck, and I also feel responsible for my instructor's safety as well, so I want to make sure everything is good to go.
Does it have an oil filter? If it does pull it and cut it open. If not check your oil pressure screen and suction screen. I would bore scope the cylinders, especially if they are chrome and look for flaking chrome or it could be from the rings if you have steel cylinders.
My gut feel says you have lifter faces starting spall. They will go before the cam. I don’t know of any O-320’s that fell out of the for that. Mine was shedding a lot more metal than that but running fine. My oil filter looked like a July fourth sparkler.
The fist picture is 1 of 7 spalled lifters. The second picture was what I found in my oil filter prior to disassembly of the engine.
I would fly it and keep an eye on it. What you are seeing I had for about one hundred hours before the bigger pieces started showing up. It still ran fine.
Last edited by Gilbert Pierce; 03-13-2023 at 07:02 PM.
Does it have an oil filter? If it does pull it and cut it open. If not check your oil pressure screen and suction screen. I would bore scope the cylinders, especially if they are chrome and look for flaking chrome or it could be from the rings if you have steel cylinders.
My gut feel says you have lifter faces starting spall. They will go before the cam. I don’t know of any O-320’s that fell out of the for that. Mine was shedding a lot more metal than that but running fine. My oil filter looked like a July fourth sparkler.
The fist picture is 1 of 7 spalled lifters. The second picture was what I found in my oil filter prior to disassembly of the engine.
I would fly it and keep an eye on it. What you are seeing I had for about one hundred hours before the bigger pieces started showing up. It still ran fine.
No oil filter, and he did say we would check both screens when we do the annual next week. He also wants to borescope the cylinders, and He said the reason he didn't really want to pull a cylinder and borescope the cam was because he seems to think it could cause more problems then what it's worth. He offered to do it through, just that he thought it was a waste of my money at this moment in time. He said if the screens look like he expects then his recommendations would be like you said, to fly it and keep any eye on it. Your story does makes me feel a little better about the situation. While the rational part of me understands its unlikely to cause a sudden catastrophic failure, the irrational part of me is mildly concerned about it. He said when he checked compressions cold the lowest was 68, and that would likely go up after we fly it for a while.
I flew a Pacer once that was really low on power. My first thought was missed rigged throttle. That checked out so I checked the muffler baffles. That was good. A couple cam lobes turned out to be just nubs. They had to have been wearing over a long period of time.
Sounds like you found the right mechanic. I would go about it the same way he is. I have changed a lot of cam and tappets over the years. The engine will tell you what it is doing and sounds like you have the right guy that knows how to hear what it is saying. Let us know what you find. Keeping my fingers crossed it is from the newer cylinder and inactivity.
I flew a Pacer once that was really low on power. My first thought was missed rigged throttle. That checked out so I checked the muffler baffles. That was good. A couple cam lobes turned out to be just nubs. They had to have been wearing over a long period of time.
Wow! Its good to know that it seems if there does end up being an issue with the cam it will likely start showing symptoms before any major failure.
Originally Posted by Steve Pierce
Sounds like you found the right mechanic. I would go about it the same way he is. I have changed a lot of cam and tappets over the years. The engine will tell you what it is doing and sounds like you have the right guy that knows how to hear what it is saying. Let us know what you find. Keeping my fingers crossed it is from the newer cylinder and inactivity.
I'm very happy with him, he seems very honest and to know his stuff. What I appreciated was when he said "I'll get in it and fly with you as soon as we get done with it, I would never let someone go fly something I wouldn't get in and fly myself." That alone gave me a lot of confidence in him. After browsing this site I came to the conclusion there are a lot of very knowledgeable people on shortwings here, and I figured I would get the opinions/advice of the experts here as well, and I am glad that I did. I will definitely update after the annual
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New to me PA22 with Chrome/Iron in oil
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Pierce
