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Thread: Flap Handle Extension STC

  1. #11
    EZFlap's Avatar
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    Default EZ Flap flap handle extension STC

    Well, it's no surprise that the initial discussion about this product is as warm on this forum as it was on the others. Skepticism with a small touch of nastiness. Don't worry, it'll win all of you over the same as it won over the Cessna crowd

    The first shortwing demo installation (before it was even certified) was at Copperstate 2009. Col. Larry Portouw, Cliff Van Vleet, and at least one or two other known shortwing club members tried it out on Larry's PA-22. They all immediately saw that it was a very significant improvement, and announced it at the shortwing forum tent. Col. Portouw asked to be the first customer when it was certified, and was.

    Since then, several PA-20 and PA-22 installations have been done. As with the Cessna product, I offered each customer a full money back guarantee if they weren't really really happy with it. As with the Cessna product, not one customer who has flown with EZ Flap in their airplane has returned it.

    Pardon the length of this but I would like to address all of your concerns individually:

    1) Tripod, it is not a major obstacle when getting into the pilot seat. The FAA would never have certified this device if you had to crawl over it, or if it could have trapped you in a crash. You scoot over and slide your feet behind it, between the seat and the flap handle extension. Yes, there is something else there that wasn't there before. No it's not a big deal. Many times your dangling headset cables, coiled cord or whatever will cause you just as much of a problem. In a crash scenario, EZ Flap can be kicked to rotate flat on the floor, or bent/broken out of the way. It's thin wall aluminum tube, not steel or composite.

    2) Curly, it's a very well-made and attractive unit, and it's a lot more attractive than several big Tinkertoy GPS mounts, light green colored headsets, 1960's slimy brown naugahyde, and plenty of other things. The PA-22 itself is not exactly a Stelio Frati or Reginald Mitchell design. But like the PA-22, EZ Flap is "functionally beautiful". The first time you stay upright and comfortable, keeping full visibility while using the flaps in a demanding takeoff or landing... it will be the prettiest thing you've ever seen

    3) pmanton, five hundred bucks is just about the least expensive cost of any worthwhile STC these days, especially involving a flight control. Piper probably charges $500 for a piece of interior plastic or a tire. This is a time when improved fresh air vent tubes cost $1200 (Knots 2 U Cessna upgrade), and a 3 ounce handful of extruded aluminum vortex generators costs $700 (but you do get a tube of glue from the hardware aisle for that money).

    4)Tripod, whether you have to look at your flap handle or not, "the way it is" is that you have to bend down and forward to find it. Whether you can do it without looking is not the point. The point is that you CANNOT look where you're going, and you CANNOT keep your eyes out of the cockpit, etc. while you're bending down on the floor for the Piper flap handle. EZ Flap solves that problem, thus increasing safety, keeping the pilot's concentration on flying the airplane, and allows most shoulder harnesses to be worn safely and correctly.

    5) Frank Green, your priority number for the girl is 654,889,255. Since your avatar photo shows you own TWO airplanes that this product is useful on, I may change that from a nine digit number to an eight digit number FYI Becky is actually an F-33 Bonanza owner and student pilot at our home airport.

    6) Mike MCS Repair, your hand is right about at your hip when using this in a PA-20/22 On a Brand C airplane, which uses a very long handle and an 80 degree travel in the cockpit... THEN your hand would be in the back seat. That's why EZ Flap allows full use of the OEM Brand C (and Piper) flap handle at any time. On Brand C it is guaranteed you will need to switch grip between the EZ Flap and the OEM handle. On Piper airplanes (which use a shorter throw and a shorter handle), is is not necessary to switch your grip, however if you find it more convenient or ergonomic to use the Piper handle for the last notch of flap you can do so effortlessly.

    7) Tripod, on a Brand C airplane you are forced (because of Brand C's design not mine) to use BOTH the EZFlap and the OEM unit. Although not related to Pipers, many people adjust their seat way too far forward in a Brand C airplane... because they have so much trouble reaching the !($*% flap handle on the floor. EZ Flap very often allows a pilot to move the seat further aft, which gives you more arm leverage when using the Brand C flap handle at full flap.

    mljossner, congratulations on understanding that there is a need for something to solve this problem. I won't be the one to drop a dime on you, but your gizmo may not withstand a ramp check. The EZ Flap upgrade is STC-PMA legal, which means it will not completely void your insurance policy like a backyard lash-up does. Consider the dollar value of your deductible (probably more than the product price tag), and consider the headache of fighting with your insurance company when they try to reject a claim because your airplane was not in a certified condition at the time of a totally unrelated) incident.

    The one over-riding factor is that EZ Flap has had a 100% money back guarantee since day one. Not one customer who has flown with EZ Flap has returned it.

    I look forward to the opportunity to answer any questions or address any concerns about this. There are several happy shortwing customers flying with this upgrade now. Col. Portouw has indicated that he will be writing a magazine article for the SWPC as soon as his engine problems are solved and he can fly his Tripe.

  2. #12

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    What's a SWPC?

  3. #13
    EZFlap's Avatar
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    JohnW wrote: What's a SWPC?

    The Short Wing Piper Club based in Halstead KS (on Main St, no less).

    Accept my apologies if there is any competition or animosity between this organization and that one. Not being a shortwing aircraft owner I am not tuned in to any of those politics if they exist, sorry if I stepped into a minefield. The guys from that club were really great to me, and Steve Pierce from this group has been really great to me.

  4. #14

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    Oh, yeah. Now I remember them.

  5. #15
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    Just sitting here shaking my head. I've never had to take my eyes off the runway or whatever when flying many Pipers and Cessnas with manual flaps. I don't need one, but good luck to you selling them. BTW, not the best idea to imply that our Shortwings are anything less than the most beautiful planes ever produced.

  6. #16
    EZFlap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoDriver View Post
    Just sitting here shaking my head. I've never had to take my eyes off the runway or whatever when flying many Pipers and Cessnas with manual flaps. I don't need one, but good luck to you selling them. BTW, not the best idea to imply that our Shortwings are anything less than the most beautiful planes ever produced.
    All airplanes are beautiful in one way or another.The shortwings are just beautiful in other ways than other airplanes. The Supermarine S6 is certainly more sexy to look at, but the shortwings are much more sexy when it comes time to pay the fuel, maintenance and flight training bills! Just to be fair, I'd love to own both

    As I've pointed out on several other forums, I'm not saying that you couldn't fly your manual flap airplanes before. People have been flying them for well over 60 years now. However... give me a fair shake here -

    As a humorous example, let's say Piper, or Brand C for that matter, had put the throttle knob in the back seat, under the seat cushion. Sooner or later you COULD figure out a way to fly it. Sooner or later lots of people would be able to say they've been able to adapt, overcome, and fly their airplanes safely with one of the controls not within easy reach.

    You'd eventually get people who could legitimately say "I've got eleven thousand hours in this airplane with the throttle right back there in the rear seat. All it takes is leaning over and loosening your shoulder harness, and it's really no problem to use!"

    But the minute that someone came up with an easy 30 minute fix that put the throttle control within easy reach of the pilot on the instrument panel, anyone and everyone who thought it was "no problem" in the back seat would say... "Oh... I see. That's a lot easier. Yeah, it should have been there all along."

    What I am saying is that this upgrade puts the flap control right where your hand wants it to be, instead of two feet away on the floor. No matter whether you are 6 feet tall or have long arms, as long as you are a normally proportioned human being you will see a significant advantage to this upgrade. Here's the reason:

    The taller the pilot, the further rearward he will have his seat adjusted (or cushions removed). Which puts his hands at the same position as a shorter pilot with the seat moved further forward. The throttle, control yoke, instrument knobs, radio knobs, rudder pedals and flap handle are all at a fixed location relative to each other. All you do when you adjust the seat is move your butt fore or aft.

    No matter where the seat is adjusted (so your yoke and throttle are at the right location for your height), the flap handle will always be two or three feet further away than the yoke and throttle.

    The only situation where this would not be valid is if you had someone with abnormally short legs and abnormally long arms at the same time. Their seat would be all the way forward and yet their arms would reach the floor without leaning forward.

    The rest of us will see a definite improvement, ranging from "hey that's way more convenient and comfortable" all the way to "Now I can see out of the airplane and keep my shoulder harness snug".

    Sorry to be a smart-aleck, but they also shook their heads when the VG's came out. Lots of people said "I've been flying my airplane off short strips for 40 years and never had a problem..." Now, VG's are universally accepted as making an immediate, significant, quantifiable improvement in the low speed control and STOL ability of hundreds of different types of airplanes.

    EZ Flap makes an immediate, significant, quantifiable improvement in the safety, ease, comfort, and pilot workload of using manual flaps, or your money back. Who else gives you that guarantee?
    Last edited by EZFlap; 07-22-2010 at 02:57 PM.

  7. #17

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    When I had the TriPacer, I used a leftover luggage strap and put it around the flap handle. When approaching the traffic pattern I'd grab the strap and tuck it under my right leg. Firts notch was simply pulling on the strap, by then the handle was easily reached without ducking down. After i got used to the plane i didn't bother with it, just ducked down a split second and pulled on the first notch.

    Now of course I'm all growed up and don't want/need those flap thingies. Come to think of it, before I traded for the Vagabond, I started making landings with the TriPacer sans flaps. I'm sure your device is peachy keen there EZFlap, just don't see spending half an aviation unit on something for which there is a cheap alternative...cuts into the avgas budget.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by EZFlap View Post
    The only situation where this would not be valid is if you had someone with abnormally short legs and abnormally long arms at the same time. Their seat would be all the way forward and yet their arms would reach the floor without leaning forward.
    HEY, I resemble that remark!
    Orang-Utan-Parkkonen.jpg

    For those with fixed shoulder harnesses I could really see this as the thing to have. However, the price tag of $500 is a bit steep for my blood. Grabbing the flap handle is an issue, I just don't think it's a $500 issue.....just for me. I'm sure others will think differently and you will (I hope) sell a bunch of them. It does look like a good product. Good luck with it.
    “Seek advice but use your own common sense.”
    ― Yiddish Proverb

  9. #19
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    Thank you for the replies, and I do understand this is not a $25.00 expenditure. All I ask is that you honestly consider what other STC-PMA modifications cost, and that you understand EZ Flap is among the least expensive certified upgrades that are available.

    Many many people are offended at the $700 price tag of a VG kit, which is essentially only a handful of little aluminum extrusion pieces, glue, and some paperwork. But people who fly with VG's understand they're worth every penny because they do something worthwhile.

    But nobody seems to complain too loudly about the price of the latest $1500-3500 GPS gizmo. No one calls the "New 3D SurroundSound StormScope Featuring Live Antarctic Terminal Forecasts - Now With Second Mortgage Payment Option!" a ridiculous expense just because they've "never had a problem navigating before"..

    And even though their old E6B circular slide rule still works fine, and the airport is still in the same place on the old $7.50 paper chart... they don't seem to needle the avionics company owner at every opportunity on these forums.

    I'd like to ask that most of us pilots do a reality check and think about something: Nobody pays attentino to the actual airplane anymore. Pilots upgrade their watches, their electronic GPS gadgets, their flight bags, their zero-gravity pens, their headsets, and just about anything else they can get their hands on. But it is the airplane that lifts all this crap off the ground. It is the airplane that you are betting your life on, not your Air Boss cockpit organizer (a nice product BTW).

    When was the last time most pilots invested in an upgrade product that improved the pilot's performance, or upgraded the pilot's interface with the airplane? When was the last time pilots opened their wallets to improve the safety and usability of the airplane, rather than be seduced by a black box with blinking lights?

    People have groundlooped, potholed, or run their airplanes off of a narrow runway because of ducking down behind the panel to dump flaps on a short landing. Pilots have hit obstacles on takeoff or go-around because of retracting the flaps too fast ion climbout (in a hurry to sit back up and see where they are going). I have read about one well known bush pilot (one of those 20 thousand hour types) who was killed in an otherwise survivable wreck in Alaska, specifically because his shoulder harness was loose so he could go down after the flaps.This is more serious stuff than people are giving it credit for.

    Gadgets are great, toys are great, nice little impulse-buy trinkets are just wonderful. But an actual airframe safety upgrade, that increases safety, performance, visibility and situational awareness, THEN makes a big improvement in comfort and convenience as the icing on the cake... that's an order of magnitude more important than trinkets and blinking lights.

  10. #20
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    Ya the first couple of times on the flaps it was a stretch, but now its just secound nature.
    I'm not so sure about the C class of aircraft(Its been awhile since I flew one) but the pipers really dont have the problem of not being able to see out the front while useing the flaps, At least I dont have that problem but then again I'm 6'1" ,A shorter person might have that problem.
    This should still not be a problem in the normal flight envelope. Who in their right mind would be in a position where the flaps are all the way up with the flap handle still on the floor and reaching down to grab it under 50 feet... under 200 feet. Ive never had to add flaps just after takeoff ether.(the flaps should allready be in before your actualy in the air)

    As for the price
    VGs can add alot of performance for not much mone yes its 700 smackers but adding performance is usealy in the thousands if not tens.
    Your flap handle is a convenience at least it is with me, Its not a pet peeve for me ether, so 500 is a bit much. I know getting STC's are a pain in the tail feathers but...
    I'm thinking more like 300.

    Now with all that said
    I would like to try it myself,it looks like it would do a good job.
    In a cessna maybe but in the Pipers...ya feels more like 300.

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