Shoulder Harness Installation

[tnowak]

Have been reading all about TSOs and STCs etc. on the other thread.

I see quite a few pictures of Shortwings with shoulder harness straps attached to the upper fuselage cross tube.
I am seeking local approval for that mod on my permit to fly Vagabond (in UK) but wondered if there is an existing STC for that mod?
If not, how come it gets "approved" / signed off in your Shortwings or shouldn't I ask?
TonyN

[smcnutt]

From m a previous post from Steve

Not aware of an STC but according to this FAA document none is needed. http://www.pierceaero.net/techdata/rsh.pdf

However, reading that it sounds like if you weld something like a mounting tab then it's no longer a 'minor change' so I'm not sure how they handled that. If you mount them like some others by simply wrapping a clamp around a tube then it sounds like a minor change per this document.

[rsrguy3]

Everything is pretty vague with regard to the installation of new restraints, my guess is the attitude is that they just want better restraints in these old planes. Here's mine.
http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum...Skylight/page7

[tnowak]

Thanks, the FAA Policy statement makes it perfectly clear now!!!!
The answer is........
I will send this off to the LAA. May (or may not) help them!
TonyN

[Deb Ings]

Did you also get the Altee Dodge kit for the rear seats? I'm interested in that mod as well.

[Steve Pierce]

I think the Atlee Dodge kit is engineered for the Super Cub structure. You can buy those same structural clamps at Wicks.
http://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraf...pe=2&keyType=P

[cammons3]

I think the Atlee Dodge kit is engineered for the Super Cub structure. You can buy those same structural clamps at Wicks.

I still need to install my 4-point harnesses in the Vagabond, and I'm pretty interested in using these MS27405 clamps. Looking at SWP Drawing 11576, I just want to make sure I'm seeing that the tubes I'd attach the harness and seat belt to are 1-inch ones... my drawing is a little washed out and pixelated. I crossed the number in the drawing to 11567-39 for the upper and 11567-57 for the lower. It seems that I measured 0.75" for the lower, but I was fighting a few things with my caliper to include the fabric... I couldn't do squat with the top tube, but I did seem to measure 1-inch on my parts plane (tripacer) in the hangar. Since the drawings are a little hard to read, I just want to make sure I'm see things correctly, if someone wouldn't mind checking my work.
Thanx!

Fuselage Frame Assembly.pdf
Fuselage Tubes-2.pdf

[tnowak]

Hi Curt,

The upper cross-tube is 1" OD, 0.035" wall thickness, 4130 steel.
Our UK LAA wasn't too happy with me using that cross-tube as it doesn't meet modern requirements. However, they will allow me to trial that position as I will be installing a proper attachment point when I recover my fuselage later this year.
TonyN

[cammons3]

Our UK LAA wasn't too happy with me using that cross-tube as it doesn't meet modern requirements. However, they will allow me to trial that position as I will be installing a proper attachment point when I recover my fuselage later this year.

Yep Tony, under modern regulations, our FAA wouldn't condone the use of the cross-tube either without some beefing up. However, considering the original certifications of our aircraft and the desires to at least improve (somewhat) the survivability in a crash, the Feds have been a little more lenient with the installation of individual restraints. I'm sure you're also waving the policy letter from our FAA at the LAA as well. Obviously something is better than nothing, and at least the 1-inch cross-tube will slow down the impact with the panel... Now if we could just as easily get that 12-gallon bomb out of the cockpit under a minor modification (i.e., logbook entry), life would be so much simpler.
Do you require approval for a minor modification, thus a log book entry only, under UK rules? Note pages 2 & 3 of the policy letter. Anyway, I, too, can see that when/if I ever recover the Vag, the restraint system will be improved upon; likely requiring a field approval for welding in attach points and beef-ups. I'm already putting some thought into the Pacer's set up.
Thanks for the verification.

[tnowak]

Curt,

Yes, the minor mod application process is simple and low cost as my Vag is on the permit to fly system.
However, if it was on a normal C of A system then big $$$$$$$.....
I can send you info on the beefing up I will be doing, which has received LAA approval. It is for the Vag but is most likely a good starting point for a Pacer as well.
TonyN