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Thread: Right Yoke Removal

  1. #11
    Clayton Harper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Right Yoke Removal

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilbert Pierce View Post
    The Clipper came with two sticks. It had a bolt holding the right side stick in the socket with a clip instead of a nut. There is a bracket to store the stick in on the right kick panel. Remove the clip and one bolt and slip it of the socket. Mine still has that bracket. I normally fly with it removed. My wife doesn't like navigating around it getting in and out.
    No one ever questioned my flying without the right side control and I never considered it would be an issue.
    Gilbert and me too, will have a case that we can easily defend with the Clippers. The Clipper came with the option of removing the right stick. The PA-18 at least -A came with one stick. The Bonanza had one yoke from the factory. The Pacer or Tripacer I don't think ever had a one yoke option. So, no problem if you fly with no insurance. If you wreck it with one yoke in the aircraft, you get to fix it, your nickel. If you wreck it, and you DO have insurance, you get to fix it, your nickel. Don't hurt anyone, then you only have to fix it. FAA sets the rules, the insurance companies enforce those rules.

  2. #12

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    Default Re: Right Yoke Removal

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean McGillivray View Post
    So just pull the u-joint on the right yoke?
    NO!!!- You must leave the u-joint in place- that is what retains the right sprocket that keeps the rigging together! - you just remove the yoke tube from the u-joint. You may want to wrap some tape around the u-joint to keep it from flopping around. The U-joint MUST stay in place!! To me just unbolting the yoke from the U-joint is similar to unbolting the right hand stick in the Clipper - you are not disturbing the actual control system.

  3. #13

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    Default Re: Right Yoke Removal

    Quote Originally Posted by Clayton Harper View Post
    Gilbert and me too, will have a case that we can easily defend with the Clippers. The Clipper came with the option of removing the right stick. The PA-18 at least -A came with one stick. The Bonanza had one yoke from the factory. The Pacer or Tripacer I don't think ever had a one yoke option. So, no problem if you fly with no insurance. If you wreck it with one yoke in the aircraft, you get to fix it, your nickel. If you wreck it, and you DO have insurance, you get to fix it, your nickel. Don't hurt anyone, then you only have to fix it. FAA sets the rules, the insurance companies enforce those rules.
    What Data would be used to require dual controls? The TC calls for CAR3 minimum required equipment plus the additional list that does not specify dual controls - Understanding that the original manufacturer supplied dual controls as standard - but what actual legal data in writing would be used to establish the dual controls are required equipment - when not listed in the TC - which is the aircrafts legal data? Just wondering

  4. #14
    Stephen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Right Yoke Removal

    Quote Originally Posted by Clayton Harper View Post
    Gilbert and me too, will have a case that we can easily defend with the Clippers. The Clipper came with the option of removing the right stick. The PA-18 at least -A came with one stick. The Bonanza had one yoke from the factory. The Pacer or Tripacer I don't think ever had a one yoke option. So, no problem if you fly with no insurance. If you wreck it with one yoke in the aircraft, you get to fix it, your nickel. If you wreck it, and you DO have insurance, you get to fix it, your nickel. Don't hurt anyone, then you only have to fix it. FAA sets the rules, the insurance companies enforce those rules.
    I have worked with several insurance claims, and have not had the insurance companies go through the aircraft looking for descrepancies. They have only focused on the damage. Maybe others have had different experiencies.
    "You can only tie the record for flying low."

  5. #15
    Clayton Harper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Right Yoke Removal

    Stephen, You are probably right for the most part, but ask Steve P. what a big deal "snap vents" in his first Clipper were. That's the one the RV crashed into at SNF several years ago.

  6. #16

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    Default Re: Right Yoke Removal

    Yes, Things can really vary when an incident occurs - I hate to admit it - but I have had 2 claims over the years - no issues as long as the aircraft annual and pilot bi-annual/medical where current - In fact the last more expensive claim was handled via pictures only. However, I know of some minor problems unrelated to the incident that have been made a big deal - not by the Insurance Co. - but by the FAA. As far as this yoke thing - since dual controls were std. - the removal would be an alteration - however since it does not have any affect on the structure, design, or function of the control system - I would view it as a MINOR ALTERATION by FAA definition - which would require a log book entry, equip list change and W&B adjustment by an A&P

  7. #17
    Clayton Harper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Right Yoke Removal

    You are on to something when you say, Ya got git an A&P involved. When I read Appendix A to Part 43, it talks about alterations not listed in the aircraft specifications, "(v) Control Systems" being considered a Major Alterations. Having one yoke on the left and a hole on the right could be picked up on a ramp check. Don't get me wrong I don't believe in a 337's where they are not needed. I just see the removal of the right control as difficult to defend when sit in front of that ASI asking for your logic on it being Minor Alteration.

    I don't have a Pacer/Tri Pacer FOM, but if it mentions two sets of controls, a supplement would be required, I would think. Then you have to get the FAA involved
    Last edited by Clayton Harper; 05-26-2013 at 10:15 AM. Reason: Additional thought

  8. #18

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    Default Re: Right Yoke Removal

    Seems to me if it took an STC to do an alteration of the yoke by Trimmer, that it would at least take an STC to remove it. I guess I'm missing something here. I'm not comfortable removing anything that was part of the aircraft when it was certified unless I have an STC/337 or something that tells me I can. I guess I'm just not comfortable poking the bear in the eye, ie, FAA or insurance. If I kill myself being stupid and they find one yoke in the plane, well . . .let them criticize all they want. If I kill myself and someone else and they find one yoke on the plane, all it does is open you up to litigation, criticism, and pain for all parties. We all know when we fly that only one person has their hands on the yoke. I get that. I have to believe the aircraft design and certification process has two of them for a reason. I'm no expert and don't claim to be and my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it . . .unless someone wants to send me some money.

  9. #19

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    Default Re: Right Yoke Removal

    Trimmer REPLACED the yoke with a different part- therefore the part would have to be proven to be of proper material and strength(STC process) - removing the one yoke is no different then removing one stick - no modification is done to the control system at all that requires any engineering - I will check with my IA and FSDO on the this - If a field approval is required - I will do that at some point this year - I still hold to a Minor Alteration - since no change is done at all to the control system itself. If anything - a single yoke is less stress on the actual control system. Nice thing about my other plane (AA1A 150hp taildragger) is that the Yankee was standard with single controls and the dual controls were optional- and in that case more is involve than just removing the yoke shaft from the universal. Again I have found no data requiring for dual controls for the PA20 or 22 the TC data sheet lists the minimum required equipment. So the idea that things that were originally in the plane as delivered can not be remove - would be like saying - well it came with gyro's so I have to have them - but gyro's are not required equipment. This is no big deal - to each his own - but I will later in the year check it out with the Seattle FSDO.

  10. #20

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    Default Re: Right Yoke Removal

    This is an interesting discussion. As I stated, I'm certainly no expert. I'd be interested to know what you find out. I have no interest or need to remove a yoke (where would I hang my ipad?) but it's still peaking my curiosity.

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