PA 22 Glide Ratio

[Kurts]

One could also argue that you should be comfortable and proficient at making the aircraft touch down consistently on a chosen spot with an engine that's been at idle since the downwind. That way if you ever have to do it for real, it won't be such an "oh s**t" moment. If you always drag it in with power, you may not put the wheels where you want them when it counts.

Kurt

[rbell]

Seems like my primary instructor said an engine failure was much more common when pulling it to an idle than when in cruise. That said, any landing in a short wing without a burst of power at flare will be a bit abrupt.

[pinkgas]

Seems like my primary instructor said an engine failure was much more common when pulling it to an idle than when in cruise. That said, any landing in a short wing without a burst of power at flare will be a bit abrupt.

I wonder why engines fail when going to idle. Love to see reports of that. I have many greasers with a dead stick, that is how I learned it. It is all airspeed management and smooth flare to stall one foot off the numbers.

[Kurts]

Agreed. An abrupt landing, power off, is due to technique, or a lack thereof, and is not just because it's a short wing. That being said, my experience is in a Colt and so all my landings are flapless. Perhaps if I had all that drag hanging out my experiences would be different.

[Troy Hamon]

I suppose it is...but that can often be corrected by re-adjusting the idle.

[danP]

As a new pilot (250 ish hours) i've found a couple exercises really useful. one is dutch rolls. The other was a suggestion from Troy (maybe on another forum) to practice flying down the length of the runway a foot off. After i did that a few times it really improved my flare, like 100%. Now I do it occasionally because its just plane fun. So now dead stick or not I just adjust and hold off to stall.

Kurts, you're OK with flap-less landings, mine used to be hapless.

[pinkgas]

I suppose it is...but that can often be corrected by re-adjusting the idle.

Not being contrary but please define "re-adjusting the idle". Idle is idle, seems to me: engine running with zero throttle applied. The "stabilized approach" thread is valid, it's just that one is stabilized at idle and best glide speed, then reducing speed on final to 5-10 mph above stall. Takes lots of practice in the pattern to master this and if one goofs it up it is not due to faulty physics: physics is never wrong. It is due to faulty execution and judgement of the conditions. Nobody can get it right 100% of the time! I am just trying to stress that managing the conditions of any particular approach is the key to solid, safe landings. To be able to execute only one technique to land is at least poor judgement and at worst dangerous if the conditions don't match your learned technique.

But then, in the words of my esteemed instructor, (rest his soul), "any landing you walk away from is a good landing".

[Troy Hamon]

Lots of float jockeys up here. They don't have any brakes, so they like to adjust the idle to 450 rpm or so...but it becomes a fine dance because there is a point, which is not necessarily the same for any two engines, where it may idle okay under some conditions, but under others it will die on you when you pull the power back after cruise power, like on landing or taxi. That can be addressed by adjusting the idle, usually moving it up. I suspect most planes are set to idle at around 700. The mixture setting can also contribute, so sometimes the idle mixture is the issue.

If my plane dies when I pull it to idle (and yes, I had that issue for a while after one annual) I keep taking it back to the mechanic until we get it to stop doing that. In my case, we were successful.

Right now I have a plane set to idle at 500 rpm or less, and it does not die when I pull it to idle on landing.

[Troy Hamon]

Just re-read your post...idle is determined by adjustments at the throttle connection to the carburetor and the mixture connection at the carburetor. Your mechanic should be able to work with you to prevent the power-off throttle movement giving you a silent surprise.

[Bruce]

There should be a mechanical stop, the idle screw, to set the idle. The linkage is adjusted to get to that point. I've seen linkages adjusted for idle.