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Thread: Tri-pacer Rudder/Aileron Interconnect

  1. #151
    dougclinton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flight controls interconnect removed

    Supplement 3 To Airplane Flight Manual Dated September 3, 1954. Required to be in the Aircraft Flight Manual if you have removed flight controls interconnect per Piper Drawing 14926, i.e., changed over to Colt steering horn, springs, etc. and shows flight limitations for operation in the Utility Category. With help from a Shortwingpiperclub.org member I found it in the Maintenance Data Depot section of that website available to members only. I am still not convinced that installation of 14926 is required if the interconnect is removed UNLESS you want to operate in the utility category. Lots of conflicting opinions on the issue. Nevertheless, I installed the "kit" following removal of the interconnects to avoid any potential conflict with an FAA interpretation. Original airplane placard says, "OPERATE IN NORMAL CATEGORY IN COMPLIANCE WITH APPROVED FLIGHT MANUAL. ACROBATICS (INCLUDING SPINS) PROHIBITED," so that tells me that even with interconnects connected or not you could not operate in a utility category and there is no mention of utility category in either the original flight manual or POH. You perform a flight check after re-rigging with the interconnects slackened thus essentially removed. With the kit installed the placard is changed to read "OPERATE IN NORMAL OR UTILITY CATEGORY IN COMPLIANCE WITH APPROVED FLIGHT MANUAL AIRPLANE MARKED FOR NORMAL CATEGORY. ACROBATICS (INCLUDING SPINS) PROHIBITED IN NORMAL CATEGORY." Per FAR 23.3, Utility Category is defined as: Utility Category is the same type and size of airplane, but approved for "limited acrobatic operations" - this may include intentional spins, as well as the "commercial maneuvers" with higher bank angles (greater than 60 degrees, up to 90 degrees). The last time I performed a spin was in a T-37 in Air Force pilot training in 1967 and I have no intention of practicing near aerobatic maneuvers in my nearly 60 year old Tri Pacer. So, my interpretation of all of this is that you can operate in the normal category with the flight control interconnect removed without installing the "kit" in Piper Drawing 14926. Sure interested to hear what others have to say about this.

  2. #152

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    Default Re: Flight controls interconnect removed

    I don't think that is correct but will defer to more knowledgeable people on this forum. As I understand it, legal removal of the interconnect must be done in accordance with drawing 14926.

  3. #153
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tri-pacer Rudder/Aileron Interconnect

    I merged this thread with another on the subject. Should be a lot of information on this subject.

  4. #154

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    Default Re: Tri-pacer Rudder/Aileron Interconnect

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Hi Chris,

    Your number and the word clamp in Google has a few hits.

    https://www.google.com/search?as_q=1...pe=&as_rights=




    Sent from my iPad using ShortWingPipers.Org mobile app

  5. #155

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    Default Re: Tri-pacer Rudder/Aileron Interconnect

    Just read through this entire thread, and lots of conflicting and incorrect data. First off, if you have STC SA45RM to convert to a tailwheel, please read your STC! Note 4 of the limitations on the STC says "This installation is not eligible on Utility Category PA-22-150 and PA-22-160 (aileron-rudder interconnect removed)." That is saying the STC isn't authorized with the interconnect removed, no idea why but that is the limitation clearly stated.

    Next up, Item 407 on the TCDS. Item 407 "Control modification kit (eliminating rudder and aileron interconnection) per Piper drawing 14926. Items 401r or 401t and Note 2(g) placard required. See limitations Note 3." So if you install the kit, you also need to install 401r or 401t Flight Manual Supplement. 401r is only applicable to PA-22-150, and 401t is only applicable to PA-22-160. That limits the installation of the kit to only those two models. It also requires a placard under Note 2g, and that placard only applies to aircraft certified as both normal and utility category. The only models that are both normal and utility are the PA-22-150 and PA-22-160, further identifying the limitation that this is only for the PA-22-150 and PA-22-160.

    As for removing the system, drawing 14926 doesn't remove the cables, it simply disconnects them and the cables are secured to the fuselage tubes.

    14CFR 3.3 defines the term Airworthy. It needs to conform to type design (or properly altered state) and in condition for safe operation. To meet the type design, all the parts need to be installed. The PA-22 (except PA220-10 all had the interconnect as part of the type design. Changing the design of the primary control systems would be a Major Alteration, and would require Approved Data. From my read of the STC SA45RM, it doesn't allow the removal or the installation of 14926. Now, the STC was first issued in Dec 1974, and was amended in Dec 76, Mar 79, Jul 70, Apr 88, and Jan 94. Note 4 could have been added at any of those amendments, and earlier versions of the STC may have allowed the removal of the system. There is also a required Flight Manual Supplement associated with the STC, so there may be additional data there.

    I looked at a couple other STCs for tailwheel conversions, and at least one specified removal of the interconnect. AS several commenters stated, they have theirs removed via Field Approval. When I had a TriPacer (PA-22-160), I had mine loosened, as if I were doing the rigging procedure. By the way, someone asked about rigging, the proper rigging for the PA-22 series is contained in Service Memos 20 and 21.

    Hope this helps clear up some of the confusion.

  6. #156

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    Default Re: Tri-pacer Rudder/Aileron Interconnect

    Dgapilot, I can't thank you enough for organizing the info on this thread. I was researching the subject and read through the entire thing (holy crap). It reads bit jumbled probably because Steve merged several threads. I wish I read this post first. It was the service memos info i was looking for.

  7. #157
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    Default Re: Tri-pacer Rudder/Aileron Interconnect

    There was another thread on this subject matter back in 2015 which made more sense. It appears Univair reworded the STC sometime after purchase from LPC and caused this confusion about eligibility to remove the interconnect. Seems that Univair was just trying to say that STC SA45RM limits the conversion to Normal category only, in other words if the 150/160 Tripacer was modified with the Colt nose steering kit into Utility category and that same modified aircraft was converted to TW under the Univair STC then it was no longer eligible to be in Utility category.
    Does anyone have a copy of the Roy Dyer letter mention in this thread?

    https://www.shortwingpipers.org/foru...p/t-10712.html
    Brian
    Monrovia, CA

  8. #158
    Administrator Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tri-pacer Rudder/Aileron Interconnect

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    There was another thread on this subject matter back in 2015 which made more sense. It appears Univair reworded the STC sometime after purchase from LPC and caused this confusion about eligibility to remove the interconnect. Seems that Univair was just trying to say that STC SA45RM limits the conversion to Normal category only, in other words if the 150/160 Tripacer was modified with the Colt nose steering kit into Utility category and that same modified aircraft was converted to TW under the Univair STC then it was no longer eligible to be in Utility category.
    Does anyone have a copy of the Roy Dyer letter mention in this thread?

    https://www.shortwingpipers.org/foru...p/t-10712.html
    It was on page 2 of the thread.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  9. #159
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    Default Re: Tri-pacer Rudder/Aileron Interconnect

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    It was on page 2 of the thread.
    Roy unfortunately used the word “kit” in his explanation of removing the interconnect. Which lends additional confusion to the interpretation of what the STC allows. Too bad he didn’t simply say “interconnect removal’” is allowed in all Normal category PA22’s. I feel like that was his intent. My opinion, 2 cents or less.
    Last edited by Brian; 08-26-2019 at 09:04 AM.
    Brian
    Monrovia, CA

  10. #160
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    Default Re: Tri-pacer Rudder/Aileron Interconnect

    Having recently had experience with rerigging and my interconnect tension. It seems that too much tension in the interconnect is not that unusual of a problem. If you use the ailerons and need to dial in no or reverse rudder, they may be too tight. If it’s hard to do a minimal wing low, cross rudder on final, the interconnect my be too tight.

    -Alana

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