A little too gusty.
- Thread starter Jim
- Start date
Gilbert Pierce
MEMBER
Germantown, Tennessee 01TN
Keep that wing down into the wind after landing.
Brian
SPONSOR
Monrovia, CA
Unexpected things sure happen quickly during gusty crosswind landings. Possibly a quartering tailwind component just looking at how it tipped over the nose?
www.katu.com
Incident Piper PA-22-150 Tri-Pacer , Saturday 6 July 2024
The aircraft, a Piper PA-22-150 Tri-Pacer, Registration undisclosed, sustained unreported damage subsequent to a loss of directional control during the landing in gusting wind conditions ...
asn.flightsafety.org
Pilot unharmed as wind gust causes vintage Piper plane crash at Sunriver Airport
Sunriver Police responded to a plane crash at the Sunriver Airport on Saturday at 1:36 p.m.
www.katu.com
Graham, Texas, United States
Gusting to 16 kts and that right aileron is up. Reminds me of Cathy taking lee and I to do a pre-purchase inspection right after she got her pilot's license in the Tri-Pacer. Dialed up the AWOS and the wind was blowing pretty hard but was exactly 90 degrees to the runway. I remember telling her "your choice, from the left or from the right". She did great, although I was ready, I didn't have to touch the controls.
Glen Geller
MEMBER
Beaverton, Oregon, United States
I know that pilot owner very well, they are a retired senior airline pilot with >23K hrs in everything from light GA to Jumbos, and was even an instructor and check pilot for a major airline.
They have over 20 years in the PA22.
The winds are very squirrely at Sun River, the similar small plane just ahead of them landed without incident.
The wind shifted as they touched down and a sudden large gust hit from behind. They said they put full control input in and it simply was not enough.
GG
They have over 20 years in the PA22.
The winds are very squirrely at Sun River, the similar small plane just ahead of them landed without incident.
The wind shifted as they touched down and a sudden large gust hit from behind. They said they put full control input in and it simply was not enough.
GG
akflyer
SPONSOR
Soldotna AK
The bad part about the direct linkage nose wheel. Once it is cocked over and has some force on it, it takes a herculean effort to straighten it out. I learned the hard way on soft stuff with my first tripacer. You might think you are putting your foot through the firewall trying to apply rudder, but its not moving. It also happens so damn fast that there is virtually no time to react after the initial oh shite factor passes.
I agree on the rudder input. With a crosswind from the right, natural reaction is to add right aileron to keep the wing down but that also turns the nose wheel right. She then has a major dynamic to tip over the nose like the tricycle that she is. Most of us ended up with skinned knees as a toddler from this tendency. You have to immediately counter the interconnect control system with opposite nose wheel steering and rudder input to stop this swerve. Like the little tricycle, recovery is all about the feet. It can happen on takeoff as well as landing. With the short coupled tail wheel version, it can be even worse just doesn’t usually go in its back. You still have to get the tail down after a wheel landing. No flaps extended so he was probably carrying a bit of extra speed to compensate for the cross wind. This would make the swerving tendency even greater. Unless you have the timing to align the aircraft with the runway in the last second with the rudder before it can start to drift, you need to land on the right wheel first. This keeps the right wing down and the rudder keeps the aircraft aligned with the runway to stop any downwind drifting. Most high time pilots have flown heavy equipment and they normally use the last second, rudder alignment technique in crosswinds. Maybe old habits die hard. Looked like a nice Tri-Pacer. Crap happens to both high and low time pilots. I am not trying to bust the pilots chops, just trying to see where this might have gone wrong so that maybe I can prevent it from happening to me.
N2709P
N2709P
Last edited:
rocket
Non-Member
Talkeetna AK
I keep bumping into this thread…
Gusting 16 is not that much even landing down wind. Not advisable that’s for sure
I’ve never seen a 22 nose gear fold and dog knows I tried myself a few times. Ran big airglas 2000 nose ski for about 1000 hours without issues in conditions less than frendly… Bounced across some rough tundra a couple times on wheels: 8:50 w/8:00 nose
I’m thinking there might be an unknown factor: flat nose tire might do it? Or something else.
Early in my flying asked a few about flaps and all the old timers basically replied: god gave you flaps for a reason-use them-regardless of the wind.
Some time ago I acquired a 58 182 was flying her about 200-300 hours a year and mostly kept the Batplane on floats or skis. Got in her on wheels one day and flat out got lazy/complacent landing x wind and found myself on the outside of the landing lights, zagged myself back on the center line, completed a go-around, squared myself up in the seat and told myself to get serious. Did three more without issue and went about my way. If I had been on pavement or a standard ‘lower 48’ strip most likely would have been like the OP video or worse :/
One last point
-when you feel the tail come up and see the down wind wing get close to the ground:
FULL POWER-YOKE BACK.
I saved one once on skis but not before loosing one non wind related one wheels.
What’s that saying? “There are those that have and those that will”
Rocket
Gusting 16 is not that much even landing down wind. Not advisable that’s for sure
I’ve never seen a 22 nose gear fold and dog knows I tried myself a few times. Ran big airglas 2000 nose ski for about 1000 hours without issues in conditions less than frendly… Bounced across some rough tundra a couple times on wheels: 8:50 w/8:00 nose
I’m thinking there might be an unknown factor: flat nose tire might do it? Or something else.
Early in my flying asked a few about flaps and all the old timers basically replied: god gave you flaps for a reason-use them-regardless of the wind.
Some time ago I acquired a 58 182 was flying her about 200-300 hours a year and mostly kept the Batplane on floats or skis. Got in her on wheels one day and flat out got lazy/complacent landing x wind and found myself on the outside of the landing lights, zagged myself back on the center line, completed a go-around, squared myself up in the seat and told myself to get serious. Did three more without issue and went about my way. If I had been on pavement or a standard ‘lower 48’ strip most likely would have been like the OP video or worse :/
One last point
-when you feel the tail come up and see the down wind wing get close to the ground:
FULL POWER-YOKE BACK.
I saved one once on skis but not before loosing one non wind related one wheels.
What’s that saying? “There are those that have and those that will”
Rocket
