Beacon location?
- Thread starter Spdcrazy
- Start date
Glen Geller
MEMBER
Beaverton, Oregon, United States
Speed, what is the current beacon installation on your plane now?
I assume no beacon is installed, correct?
My Tri-Pacer has a triple-flash strobe installed on top of the rudder, it is very visible in flight, but its a draggy installation, requires the mounting stub to be there (sometimes it's not) and it would be very difficult to fish the wiring thru if the rudder was covered.
The belly strobe is an easier install, but not great visibility from ahead/above, and also draggy.
I agree along the fuselage spine is fugly and draggy.
The modern, integrated nav-position LEDs with strobe function are very visible and add no appreciable drag to your plane, and depending on what wires are already there, might be easy to install.
SkyBeacon and the matching opposite nav light would solve your problem and add ads-b OUT, for about $2500.
Good luck.
Sent from my SM-G955U using ShortWingPipers.Org mobile app
I assume no beacon is installed, correct?
My Tri-Pacer has a triple-flash strobe installed on top of the rudder, it is very visible in flight, but its a draggy installation, requires the mounting stub to be there (sometimes it's not) and it would be very difficult to fish the wiring thru if the rudder was covered.
The belly strobe is an easier install, but not great visibility from ahead/above, and also draggy.
I agree along the fuselage spine is fugly and draggy.
The modern, integrated nav-position LEDs with strobe function are very visible and add no appreciable drag to your plane, and depending on what wires are already there, might be easy to install.
SkyBeacon and the matching opposite nav light would solve your problem and add ads-b OUT, for about $2500.
Good luck.
Sent from my SM-G955U using ShortWingPipers.Org mobile app
Spdcrazy
Non-Member
Homer Alaska
My airplane is in pieces, but it was on the belly. I will likely be using Whalen goodies, so strobing tail and nav lights on Stewart’s wing tips. I do feel that is enough, but more wouldn’t hurt. Maybe just stick with the belly?
I did see a cub with it up too on the fuse, but it was symmetrical and didn’t look good in my opinion.
I did see a cub with it up too on the fuse, but it was symmetrical and didn’t look good in my opinion.
Glen Geller
MEMBER
Beaverton, Oregon, United States
If you install modern LED strobe/position lights, and a quality LED landing light, there will be no issue with being seen day or night, assuming other traffic has the head up and not busy futzing with avionics and iPad gadgets.
GG
Sent from my SM-G955U using ShortWingPipers.Org mobile app
GG
Sent from my SM-G955U using ShortWingPipers.Org mobile app
Pacerfgoe
Non-Member
Salmon Arm BC
Gilbert Pierce
MEMBER
Germantown, Tennessee 01TN
or most likely playing their synthetic vision and profile view rather than looking out the window.
Subsonic
FRIEND
Merritt Island, FL
yep. I second that.
Graham, Texas, United States
I like the AeroLEDs Pulsar and Suntail. https://aeroleds.com/certified/ That is what I have been installing in my rebuilds. Whelen told me their tail strobe fit the same as their A500 and would fit a Piper tube and fabric rudder. It didn't. Had to modify and cover another rudder. I see now they have one they say fits.
RRHall
MEMBER
Virginia
Me too. I can't count the number of times recently I have heard people who I thought were good pilots say, " I saw this guy really close but he wasn't showing up on my ADSB". Everyone should keep their eyes out the window when VFR.
pa20
SPONSOR
Wellington, NV (NV33)
Those are the people who can't fathom that there are 70 year old planes whose owners fly in rural environments, and don't see the need to hang electronic crap on their plane. I live in the world of TCAS, synthetic vision, EVAS, etc. But, irrespective of how much equipment the plane has, that is secondary to looking out the windows! Like I used to tell my F/O's in training...If any of the onboard computers are ahead of the one between your ears, there is a problem!
Now, back to the topic of the post. I have a nice low profile LED beacon, but have been struggling with where (and how) to mount it. I agree that the top is likely the best place. But, really don't want to have to go through the hassle of having to mount it on the rudder.
Some years ago, I installed Whelen "Comet Flash" strobes. But, as is detailed above (and in many other posts), the tail strobe would not fit in the rudder. So, am using just the two wing tip strobes for now. Also, many of the new LED nav lights have a pulse mode, and I use that during daylight hours. Been flying for many years, and came close about 10 years ago to getting a photo of carnage on the front page of the paper. Made a vow to use lighting to make my plane as visible as possible. LED lighting has made that possible. LED landing lights on both wings will be a huge safety and operational improvement in the future!
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When done, my PA-16 will have a Skybeacon on the left, and a Skysensor on the right (Field Approval). A FS4000 Flight Strobe on the belly (Bracket welded to the ting just aft of the baggage compartment). LED landing lights on both wings controlled by Max Pulse, with one leg of the pulse also going to an LED replacement for an 1157 on the tail pulsing the bright side of the LED. Some of this is STC, some is Field Approval. I think there will be enough flashing lights to be seen assuming someone is looking.
Spdcrazy
Non-Member
Homer Alaska
Steve, yes Whalen has a tail nav that is now designed for the cub/pacer tail.
I have been talking with them and will likely do a full Whalen setup. Orion 360 belly strobe/beacon, Orion 550 on the back. Orion 650s on the wing tips and four of their pro series landing/taxi lights. And like DGA, likely use a max pulse controller.
Bucket list: be mistaken for a ufo by a unknowing soccer mom
I have been talking with them and will likely do a full Whalen setup. Orion 360 belly strobe/beacon, Orion 550 on the back. Orion 650s on the wing tips and four of their pro series landing/taxi lights. And like DGA, likely use a max pulse controller.
Bucket list: be mistaken for a ufo by a unknowing soccer mom
leifur
MEMBER
Germany
will the Orion 650 / 660 fit the round wingtips?
The light itself has three wires, one being to synchronize the strobes with a box and to isolate strobes from position lights.
If you wire just pwr and gnd, strobes and position lights will be on together all the time and unsynced.
And do the Orion 500 / 550 fit inside the rudder? I see they have a different length, but otherwise they seem identical. Which is the correct choice?
After enhancing the airplane with strobes on all ends, there should be no need for a beacon.
The light itself has three wires, one being to synchronize the strobes with a box and to isolate strobes from position lights.
If you wire just pwr and gnd, strobes and position lights will be on together all the time and unsynced.
And do the Orion 500 / 550 fit inside the rudder? I see they have a different length, but otherwise they seem identical. Which is the correct choice?
After enhancing the airplane with strobes on all ends, there should be no need for a beacon.
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Graham, Texas, United States
I use the AEROLED Pulsar 650 on the wing tips and the Suntail on the rudder. Not sure on the Whelen tail light. They told me one would fit and then it didn't and cost me a lot of time and money.
aeroleds.com
aeroleds.com
Wingtip Lights - AeroLEDs
ATTENTION! The System recommendations provided on this page are based on typical stock configurations. If you are uncertain about the specification of your current setup or the parts you need, please contact a sales associate to verify the correct part numbers before placing an order.
aeroleds.com
SUNTAIL CERTIFIED LED POSITION & ANTI-COLLISION TAIL LIGHT - AeroLEDs
CERTIFIED - LED POSITION & ANTI-COLLISION TAIL LIGHT Tech Specs Max Current: 0.5A@14VDC(average) 4A@14VDC(peak), 0.3A@28VDC(average) 2A@28VDC(peak) Weight: 0.16 lbs. Length: 2.2" Width: 1.7" Depth: 1.3" Model Part # Description Approvals SunTail - 14V 11-1260-12 CERTIFIED LED POSITION &...
aeroleds.com
The SkyBeacon/ SkySensor don’t provide the full coverage required, you would still need another strobe visible from behind (and possible in front). They only flash out to the side.
This has good reviews, white nav light and strobe combo https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/11-12042.php
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Attachments
So thats a nice tail light led but its not pma for certified by looks of it,.. dang..
Does anyone know of a pma nav wingtip and rudder (rear position?,for a cert pa16?
/( with new rudder ad ,i ordered the dakota cub rudder w/o top post mount, but with rear position light , unless im doing myself a disservice but i dont think so lol.)
Just ordered the drive/drawings finally,
Looking fwd to that!
and going to be installing wing landing lights as soon as the -22f temps go AWAY hopefully for good lol
Martin.
Does anyone know of a pma nav wingtip and rudder (rear position?,for a cert pa16?
/( with new rudder ad ,i ordered the dakota cub rudder w/o top post mount, but with rear position light , unless im doing myself a disservice but i dont think so lol.)
Just ordered the drive/drawings finally,
Looking fwd to that!
and going to be installing wing landing lights as soon as the -22f temps go AWAY hopefully for good lol
Martin.
moto657
MEMBER
Canyon Lake, CA
Here’s a plug and play replacement bulb for the rear position light that includes a strobe. I don’t have any first hand experience with it, but I have Aero-Lites PAR36 replacements for taxi and landing lights and they have been great.
Replacement Rear Position Light Bulb with Integrated Strobe | Aero-Lites
Innovative new plug and play dual-function (Nav/Strobe) replacement tail position light led bulb. This bulb has a standard constant position light, but also adds an additional high intensity led strobe into the circuit. Without any modifications whatsoever, by simply installing a light bulb, you...
www.aero-lites.com
walt.buskey
FRIEND
Etna, NH
That really looks interesting! Is it legal to just replace the existing bulb with this?
I think the biggest issue with that light would be in IFR you can't turn off the strobe. Granted not many shortwings are IFR certified. AS for legal, the navigation lights are TSOd as an assembly with the original incandescent bulb. Replacing the incandescent bulb with an LED technically breaks the TSO and would need some form of approval as CAR 3 and CAR 4 both require "approved" navigation lights.
Jspey
MEMBER
Moses Lake, WA
What does CAR3 say about what constitutes "approved"? Approved by whom? I don't know the answer, but we can probably narrow it down to people/orgs that existed when CAR3 was written, right? Was SAE around back then? Maybe it's them. None of the Grimes, Whelen, GE, or Wamco bulbs/lamps/strobe tubes on my shelf say TSO or FAA/PMA on them. Of course the Amazon Chinese LED's don't either...
Jspey
MEMBER
Moses Lake, WA
Interesting, I've actually never heard of CAR15 until now. Just at first glance, page 2 says position lights
15.021 It is desirable to certify a series of similar models of an item of equipment under one certification in order to eliminate as much clerical and identification work as possible. This may be done for some types of wheels, position lights, and other items, a series of which are similar in construction and differ only in size and relatively unimportant structural details. This procedure may be applied to any item to which the manufacturer can show the procedure applicable.
15.022 Items of equipment are classified as follows:
(a) Items of such design that they may be installed and used in any
type or model of certificated aircraft, and for which type and production
certificates, as defined in Part 01, may be issued to manufacturers.
(b) Items of such design that they necessarily vary to suit one or
more types or models of certificated aircraft in which they may be
used. Type and production certificates will not be issued for such
items. They will be specially approved as integral parts of the aircraft
in which they are installed.
15.023 Under § 15.022 (a) are included items such as the following:
Landing gear wheels.
Seaplane floats, excluding wing-tip floats.
Skis, including pedestals.
Position lights.
Landing flares.
Safety belts.
Parachutes.
Certain types of special flight and engine control units.
Control wheels.
Certain types of tail wheel knuckles.
Certain types of self-locking bolts and nuts, and parts of that general
character.
Then the specs are in 15.2043
15.2043 The rear light shall have an intensity of not less than 8 candlepower in all directions within 70 degrees of the longitudinal axis aft, subject to the limits specified in § 15.2032. The light shall have an intensitv of not less than 4 candlepower in all other directions within the limits specified in § 15.2032. The light shall not have astray-light intensity of more than 1 candlepower in any direction outside of the specified limits, except within the permissible tolerances specified in § 15.2032.
I'm a lawyer or engineer, but it seems to me that the CAA, at least in part 15
1. isn't interested in certifying each individual generic/universal parts including position lights, and
2. as long as the bulb meets the specs in 15.2043 then it's CAR 15 compliant, thereby CAR 3 "approved".
I'm not trying to pick a fight, it just doesn't seem to me like there's a very strong argument for not using LEDs. I like seeing new perspectives though.
15.021 It is desirable to certify a series of similar models of an item of equipment under one certification in order to eliminate as much clerical and identification work as possible. This may be done for some types of wheels, position lights, and other items, a series of which are similar in construction and differ only in size and relatively unimportant structural details. This procedure may be applied to any item to which the manufacturer can show the procedure applicable.
15.022 Items of equipment are classified as follows:
(a) Items of such design that they may be installed and used in any
type or model of certificated aircraft, and for which type and production
certificates, as defined in Part 01, may be issued to manufacturers.
(b) Items of such design that they necessarily vary to suit one or
more types or models of certificated aircraft in which they may be
used. Type and production certificates will not be issued for such
items. They will be specially approved as integral parts of the aircraft
in which they are installed.
15.023 Under § 15.022 (a) are included items such as the following:
Landing gear wheels.
Seaplane floats, excluding wing-tip floats.
Skis, including pedestals.
Position lights.
Landing flares.
Safety belts.
Parachutes.
Certain types of special flight and engine control units.
Control wheels.
Certain types of tail wheel knuckles.
Certain types of self-locking bolts and nuts, and parts of that general
character.
Then the specs are in 15.2043
15.2043 The rear light shall have an intensity of not less than 8 candlepower in all directions within 70 degrees of the longitudinal axis aft, subject to the limits specified in § 15.2032. The light shall have an intensitv of not less than 4 candlepower in all other directions within the limits specified in § 15.2032. The light shall not have astray-light intensity of more than 1 candlepower in any direction outside of the specified limits, except within the permissible tolerances specified in § 15.2032.
I'm a lawyer or engineer, but it seems to me that the CAA, at least in part 15
1. isn't interested in certifying each individual generic/universal parts including position lights, and
2. as long as the bulb meets the specs in 15.2043 then it's CAR 15 compliant, thereby CAR 3 "approved".
I'm not trying to pick a fight, it just doesn't seem to me like there's a very strong argument for not using LEDs. I like seeing new perspectives though.
Yeah, that is the 1931 version, look up the 1940 version, then in 1952 is when they went to the TSO system. TSO C30 (current revision C) is for position lights. The TSO calls out that they need to comply with SAE Specification AS271. They don't have the original TSO C30 but rev B says the SAE spec was in 1952.
leifur
MEMBER
Germany
While Steve mentioned the certified Pulsar and Suntail LED lights (FlyWAT.com) there is also the very similar Orion series. ORION650 and 550 have a STC for PA22. But it is a bit confusing, because this STC is only valid in conjunction with a beacon mount on top of the rudder. An email clarifies as follows:
Let me start by saying we are riding the coattails of these STC from over 50 years ago.
Within STC SA800ea it lists a part number 01-0770019-( ). This is a remote strobe “beacon” which falls under the ** and associated SA4-977 STC for a beacon rudder mount. The ** do NOT apply to the wingtips. Yes I know this is NOT clear at all, my apologies.
You can indeed install with wingtip lights without a beacon. The wingtip light will comply with position & anti-collision requirements.
Sorry for the confusion.
Let me start by saying we are riding the coattails of these STC from over 50 years ago.
Within STC SA800ea it lists a part number 01-0770019-( ). This is a remote strobe “beacon” which falls under the ** and associated SA4-977 STC for a beacon rudder mount. The ** do NOT apply to the wingtips. Yes I know this is NOT clear at all, my apologies.
You can indeed install with wingtip lights without a beacon. The wingtip light will comply with position & anti-collision requirements.
Sorry for the confusion.
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walt.buskey
FRIEND
Etna, NH
Clear as mud.....
leifur
MEMBER
Germany
I would like an anticollision system without a beacon. While most approved LED lights cost a fortune, there is also https://navstrobelighting.com/ replacement LEDs that seem to do it all for 400$. (Available through aircraftspruce)
91.205(c)(3). Requires an approved anti collision light system for night operations. “Approved” means TSO or STC!
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