interior insulation

d.grimm

Non-Member
Toledo,OH
I need to improve the looks of my Vagabond's boot cowl area and probably a little insulation wouldn't hurt either since it's 9 degrees this morning. Order of importance is weight, looks, and insulation qualities. Looking thru the new Sport Aviation Magazine there is a nice article about a T-Craft that a chapter rebuilt. I really like the looks of the quilted boot cowl and firewall cover in the picture. Any idea's where I could get some? (preferably in cub yellow)
 
Yes, I looked at their website but really didn't see anything like that. I looked thru the Aircraft Spruce Catalog and just haven't found what I am looking for. I liked the clean, quilted look, and if I could get it in yellow it would match the Ceconite interior.
 
I had an aircraft uphostery company make up a cover for my firewall. I insulated the firewall with a foil backed material from AS&S and then hid this with the sewn panel. I made a pattern with brown paper with the proper openings and velcro flaps and then velcroed it over the insulation. This made it match my interior.
 
I bought mine from wag aero. cat no. m-618 100. It is shown on page 103 of an old catalog. Firewall pad. It is of a gray color and padded. I put mine together while the firewall was not on the plane. Real easy to trace out and cut holes and trim that way. Looks real nice!
 
cockpit sound proofing

when rebuilding the 22 20 what can be used thats fire resistant moisture resistant and reasonable priced or does everyone put the fiberglass back in rocket
 
I used the 1" fiberglass from Airtex. It is reinforced foil faced on both sides and very tough. Could work it thru tight spaces without tearing. I sealed all edges with alu tape. My plane was insulated from the factory so when i did the rebuild it went back. Our 20 isn't and the difference is considerable. I think the weight is very minimal for the comfort you get.
 

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Frank, how did you do the interior over that? I've seen how to use ceconite to cover the interior, but not with insulation in. The insulation covers / blocks all the tubing that the ceconite would attach too.
 
Rocket - I am going to use accoustic foam - I was told that Piper only used fiberglass because it was cheap.

I once made a plywood compressor cabinet lined with the same foam for a photographic processor (pre digital they used compressed air to blow any dust from negatives) and it was very effective in keeping the noise level down. Small direct drive comps. are noisy little buggers but you could stand 6 feet away and hardly hear it.

I have found a local supplier who is able to supply the foam and most importantly, supply the fire rating certificate to allow it to be used in aircraft.

I used to have a magazine article (I think Kitplanes) on soundproofing aircraft using closed cell polyurethane foam, but I just went looking for it and can't find it. Perhaps someone remembers where it was?
 
I don't have any insulation, does that mean i won't be able to hear or talk to any one. Probly won't need to hook up the speaker.

Sbjmobil
 
after flying for thirty five years and forty five hundred hours with ten years of aerial application flying radials and turbines with only the last thousand hours with anr head gear i need all the help i can get hearing and besides i live in manitoba canada no i still live six hundred miles from polar bears but our winters still can be cold at times and a warm airplane is nice thanks for the replys i only joined a few weeks ago and i think i have already got more than my moneys worth thanks rocket
 
It gets cold here and I like flying when it's cold...so I'd like the creature comfort of some insulation in the plane, and not all on me!
 
I guess with the rate of air leakage around my windows and doors, not to mention the sheer size of those windows (uninsulated space), it would have never occurred to me that insulation could help keep the plane warm inside. Do you really think it does?
 
I have never installed any insulation when covering the interior with fabric. I have seen many different kinds of insulation that looks like it would work well but I am worried about poking the fabric during the sanding and painting process. Has anyone had any problems like this. The really good looking lightweight stuff seems pretty pricey. I wonder about the bubble wrap foil backed type?
 
I guess with the rate of air leakage around my windows and doors, not to mention the sheer size of those windows (uninsulated space), it would have never occurred to me that insulation could help keep the plane warm inside. Do you really think it does?

I do not. Only when you reduce the rate that your air leaks "changing the air in your environment" to less than your heating system's ability to replace that vacated air with WARMED AIR, will your cabin be "toasty".

There's a bigger consideration (at least with fiberglas -the ONLY item that you could say is "reasonably priced"). As drafty as these airplanes ARE, at 120 mph (give or take), how could you POSSIBLY expect there to NOT be a few thousand strands of glass threads flying around inside your cabin whenever the prop is turning? That's in the very air you suck in about every five seconds! Any piece of glass fiber you snort into the cilia that IS your respiratory system is never ever going to "get back out". It's trapped there FOREVER. Nobody apparently THOUGHT about this before about 1970. Would you go up into your attic in a tee shirt, no gloves, and without a respirator to keep the 'glas out of your airway to save four dollars of oil a month (SOMEBODY is gonna go "yuup, do it all the time!" Well, good luck with that, fella!)? Okay, looks like the 'spensive stuff is the only viable option. Will THAT work any better? Well, somebody that spent a couple Grand on doing their airplane with it is going to insist it DOES, but I am unconvinced, as far as "heating" is concerned. You still have to stop the drafts, or you is gonna be cold. Case closed.

As far as "noise level"? Save the money and grief of insulation for a better set of hearing protectors/headphones, and roll up a set of E.A.R. expandable foam inserts before you snap your stereo headset over your head... That's the only thing that is going to garantee that (even a MY age) you'll be able to still hear a squirrel fart at fifty yards, in the woods.

Really... admit that ragbag airplanes are going to require hearing protection, anyway. Even with insulated sidewalls (Cripes! can you describe for me "how to build a DRUM"? You are sitting INSIDE one!). Remember too, that any strand of fiberglas that you inhale is GOING TO BE there "for there duration". I haven't put fiberglas insulation in a recover job since 1976. Can't rationalize doing so.
 
Fiberglass flying around???? The airtex stuff is reasonably priced, double faced and I sealed ALL seams and edges with alu. tape. It is behind the sidewalls and headliner. Warm, you bet. In winter I fly warm and toasty with the heat control half way out. Can't say that about our noisy uninsulated 20. Steve understood, you don't need insulation in Texas. John, I'll stop by some time and give you a ride, might change your mind. Tad, Headliner went in first, then the insulation, then fabric on the outside, then the interior I made alu. pannels and then covered them with the same airtex fabric they made the seat covers out of. I wanted more than their plastic cardboard sidewalls inside. I also used their firewall pad and carpet but bought the carpet by the yard and cut to fit myself. Cheaper and a better fit that way.
 

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Tad, Headliner went in first, then the insulation, then fabric on the outside, then the interior I made alu. pannels and then covered them with the same airtex fabric they made the seat covers out of. I wanted more than their plastic cardboard sidewalls inside. I also used their firewall pad and carpet but bought the carpet by the yard and cut to fit myself. Cheaper and a better fit that way.

That makes sense with the headliner. How did you attach the side panels you made to the frame?
 
Frank! You didn't comment on my new avatar!!!?!!! That's Roger holding court in his hangar in front of a few of his airplanes (admittedly, the Pacer behind the "BatesFox" shows up better in the original higher res pic).
 
Wow, had to blow it up to tell. he looks good. Another high on my list of places to stop. How recent a photo? What was the name of his book?
 
Frank; I cannot pull the title of his book up from my rusted up archives to save my life. This pic was was taken either the last week of July or the first week of August, last Summer. He was indeed doing FANTASTIC (would we be surprised about that, knowing what Roger has logged in his lifetime?) at that time. He had a setback in December (criminy, he was NINETY-SIX at his last Birthday!!!!!), having totalled up a couple strokes. He's been forced to slow down a measurable amount. He still LOVES to have people "wander in unannounced" (triple so, if they FLY IN out of nowhere), but you have to expect that he tires quite easily and your visit MAY be what you might expect reasonable, time-wise...but if anybody has been there a while before you, he may actually "retire" early. You surely can't allow yourself to feel "snubbed" if he can't "hold up his end". That said, he might entertain you as his old self for hours! His brain is a sharp as ever, but his tongue is sometimes rudely uncooperative. He genuinely enjoys people, as he always has. Yeah, you ought to MAKE some time to go visit Roger, if you can't just "find some". He's the best. He's bound and determined to make it past 100, but to zero you in as to "where he's at"...he hasn't been Preaching since December.

Charlie (his Son) retired a couple years ago and has taken over sexton duties on the strip, so you can expect it to be in the shape you remember it (heh! "like a billiard table"!). He's "over with Dad" quite a bit, living just across the road. Doors open usually around ten A.M. Go see 'im.
 
Nice job there Frank. Thanks for sharing. Did they send the covers for the seats or did you send them to AirTex?


Lou S.
 
Purchased their kit and put them on myself. Sandblasted and painted the frames first. I have done upholstery before though. Not hard. Glue and D rings. The covers fit pretty well and the new foam is nice.
 
sound ?

I found some foil backed felt (both sides) from aircraft spruce and sealed it with alu tape, my hope is to cut down on noise any heat retention would be a bonus.

Terry.
 

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hello terry i noticed that your doing the skylight mod good idea this improves the viz and also eliminates the fabric ad i am just going to start that stc on my project can you show some pictures of how you did it also the picture of the insulation realy helps thanks rocket 204
 
Nice

Steve did you do this work? Nice looking install. Rocket I can get some pics but will take a day or so to get back to my shop.

Terry PS "Steves" installation instructions are well written and easy to follow.
 
Wicks sells a foam type insulation by the square foot. It is also fire blocked as per the FAR's according to their add. I am gluing it to my floor and side panels and it really seems to cut down on sound transfer when you tap on the panels. It comes in different thicknesses. I guess time will tell how well it works.
 
I'm gonna bring this thread back into action. I'm getting ready to order some new firewall insulation (think I'm going with the Wag Aero firewall pad) and I'm wondering what the best adhesive to use for attaching it to the firewall is? Is there a specific adhesive just for this installation?
 
I just finished my firewall pad installation.
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I've also got to show off the new firewall I built. JohnW gave me the great idea of buying the Harbor Freight bead roller to build my stainless steel firewall. All together I only have about $120 wrapped up in the firewall and insulation pad! I guess it pays to build this stuff yourself!
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Beautious, Nate! That bead roller has a pretty steep learning curve (for the first 12" you've ever have used it), but fortunately that curve isn't very "tall"! Makes a surprisingly nice bead, once you stop "wiggling around on the feed end", eh? For those that "haven't had the pleasure yet" of using one, the trick is to "use a person that can take instructions as complex as "Okay, start", "STOP" and "...a little slower", "okay, a little faster" for the exalted position of "Crankor". It definately can do some fine work when you learn what "properly aligned dies" means (and that the business end of the setup/adjustment is at the "gear end", after the dies have been fully seated on the working end before anything other adjustment).

Makes really neat parts/pieces, huh? One word of caution for ANYONE involved with using it, though..."This thing can REALLY BITE. Be cautious and aware of where exactly you put anything that bleeds." Not so much "inherently dangerous", but not the kind of tool you use after a couple of beersies because it doesn't know the meaning of the word "Mercy". Ya don' wanna be casually leaning on anything when the crank handle is turned -even a little bit- intentionally or not! ("There's thems that has, and there's thems that WILL." Ummm, N-A-S-T-Y)

Niiiiice!
 
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