Lightweight Skytec Starter manual, inner guts diagram

[PA-16]

Found this manual online, good info for anyone that is having starter problems. My starter drive gear spins the prop but than the spring retracts it off the ring gear while I am still pushing the start button, Clipper with no start solenoid. Found this manual online describing the internal parts and how it works https://skytec.aero/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/ES1033-Rev.-.pdf

Going to pull the starter off today and see if I can figure out what is not working, not too much going on according to the manual. Cant complain to much for all the years and starts this has provided. Trying to understand why it is coming off the ring gear early... even if I cant fix it and have to buy another starter I would like to know what the bad part is. From what I have read hear I am leaning toward a bad solenoid inside the starter drive... but not sure that makes sense, because the new battery spun the prop at lighting speed for about 3 full rotations before the drive gear released from the ring gear, than while i am still holding the start button just the drive gear keeps turning but no longer pushed out onto the ring gear. Than I release the start button and wait a couple seconds and the same thing happens, starter cranks the engine at lightning speed for about two seconds and than the drive pinion backs off the ring gear again and just keeps spinning until I release the start button.

 

[PA-16]

A coil drives the drive pinion onto the ring gear... if I am reading that right.. so I push the start button and the electrons get to this electromagnetic coil and it pushes the pinion or little gear out to mate with the ring gear flywheel and turns the engine over.. so maybe bad brushes not making enough power for this coil to keep the pinion out on the ring gear... or maybe bad coil... or bad ??? maybe never know.. juat hate to spend 1000 bucks on a knew sky tek starter, not paying 1600 for a new erz8012 thats for sure... and I thought 150 was a lot for my f150 starter... thats peanuts compared to 1600 for a airplane starter

 

[Gilbert Pierce]

After trying to start, feel ALL of the electrical connections between the battery and the starter. High resistance electrical connections can cause the issue you have. High resistance battery connections with starter current flowing thru them, several hundred amps, also causes heat. The result is lowered voltage available at the starter.
By ALL connections I mean the ground path back to the battery from the starter as well. Especially the ground strap from the engine case to the engine mount that allows the current to flow around engine mount rubbers.
Believe it or not, all the current that leaves the battery has to have clear low resistance path back to the battery.

 

[Steve Pierce]

There is at least one thread on here about troubleshooting the starter system. It starts with the simple stuff you can do with a VOM prior to taking anything apart.

 

[PA-16]

Thanks, will check the connections tomorrow. Did check the battery volage while cranking and at the battery was holding 11 volts while cranking, but did not check it at the starter, and it cranks great until the drive pinion comes off the ring gear, than the drive gear spins like crazy until I stop pushing the start button.

 

[PA-16]

Gilbert, my Clipper wiring is pretty strait forward, battery to start box start switch, all connections there good condition and tight, from the start switch to the starter one wire and its good also. For the ground, for testing purpose what gauge wire do I need to connect a ground test wire from the starter directly to the ground post on the battery?

 

[PA-16]

I dont think that the heavy duty factory Clipper start switch is the problem, but will take a closer look at it. It seems fine, push it and all is good the starter never stops spinning, just doesnt stay on the ring gear like it should, initially mates and spins the prop for a couple blades and than retracts back off the ring gear and spins until I release the start button.

The manual says there is a solid state solenoid control circuit, an engage and hold coil that controls the pinion gear driving forward to mate with the ring gear, I am thinking this engage and hold coil might be bad.

 

[akflyer]

Might try a new battery. If its getting weak it won't hold it out. 11V seems a little low when cranking. Your problem lies with how long you need to hold the start button and how many blades it's taking to start. 1 or 2 blades is all you should need to start it if everything is right. Mags good? Plugs good? Timing correct? Primers working? compression good? Something is causing it to not light off right away and you grinding the starter is not gonna help in the long run. Bet it would be real fun to prop it if you find yourself stuck somewhere with a dead battery or starter.

 

[PA-16]

Might try a new battery. If its getting weak it won't hold it out. 11V seems a little low when cranking. Your problem lies with how long you need to hold the start button and how many blades it's taking to start. 1 or 2 blades is all you should need to start it if everything is right. Mags good? Plugs good? Timing correct? Primers working? compression good? Something is causing it to not light off right away and you grinding the starter is not gonna help in the long run. Bet it would be real fun to prop it if you find yourself stuck somewhere with a dead battery or starter.

Can you put a volt meter on yours and tell me what voltage you read while cranking your engine over what is normal? The battery is brand new

 

[akflyer]

Can you put a volt meter on yours and tell me what voltage you read while cranking your engine over what is normal? The battery is brand new

my numbers won't do you any good. I have an earth ex in mine. I tossed the hawker when I put my pig on a weight loss program and haven't looked back. I would have to hit the starter with the mags off to get a real reading because I rarely hit the start button for more than a second or two. If I don't pop off on the first or second blade, I screwed up.

 

[Gilbert Pierce]

If you are checking the resistance from the starter to the battery ground or the voltage drop from the starter to battery ground you only need the multimeter leads. The ground round wire from the starter to the battery ground must be the size as the battery positive to the start switch and from the start switch to the positive terminal on the starter.

Gilbert, my Clipper wiring is pretty strait forward, battery to start box start switch, all connections there good condition and tight, from the start switch to the starter one wire and its good also. For the ground, for testing purpose what gauge wire do I need to connect a ground test wire from the starter directly to the ground post on the battery?

ing the resistance

 

[PA-16]

Thanks, all connections checked good, so took the starter off and bench checked it in a vice, applied 12 volts from AGM battery and the pinion gear just slid forward and backward like it was just along for the ride... manual says the coil makes the gear move out to the ring gear.. puzzled as to if it could be the clutch assy not working and the coil is trying to send it down range and working like it should... or if the coil is bad and its causing the gear to just drift around.. taking it to a starter shop in the morning to see if they can figure it out and maybe save me from having to spend 2 thousand dollars on a new starter.. that should be a simple 2 hundred dollar starter.

I checked the resistance of the coil that drives the gear out and it was 1.4 ohms, but dont have a number to check it against so dont know if thats a good number or too much resistance?
.

 

[Pilsudski]

My hanger mate just fixed a similar issue with his skytech off his o-320. I helped him remove it and he took it to the local old timer who repairs alternators/starters. $100 later it works fine. His plane is a Glasair I experimental so no paperwork issues. The airplane starters are no different than auto starters.

 

[PA-16]

My hanger mate just fixed a similar issue with his skytech off his o-320. I helped him remove it and he took it to the local old timer who repairs alternators/starters. $100 later it works fine. His plane is a Glasair I experimental so no paperwork issues. The airplane starters are no different than auto starters.

Thanks, new $1095. 122NL starter fixed the problem. Insane jump in price for a starter, in 2017 the same starter was $429. at aircraft spruce, now its $1295., got it from them for $1095 price match of $1095 at chief. Still insane jump in price, WTH?

guess the price increase is a hartzell thing, they bought sky tec as well as the kelly ERZ-8012, its a hartzell now to and it was $640. at spruce in 2017, now its $1648. a 250% price jack, the sky tec is 301% jack, crazy!

 

[Gilbert Pierce]

Venture capital support of large conglomerates are buying up small aviation support companies and doubling the price.
Hartzel who has recently become part of the large conglomerate bought PLANE POWER. A Plane Power voltage regulator that several years a ago was in the neighborhood of $270 is now $470 with the Hartzel name.
Boeing bought ForeFlight and several months later my ForeFlight subscription jumped abut $90.
This from AVWEB:

Shortly after buying Hartzell Aviation, new owner Arcline Investment Management has increased prices for parts across the board, in some cases by more than double. Arcline, a Nashville-based private equity firm, took over Hartzell in mid-November and published a new price list on Dec. 8 with some dramatic price increases. For instance, a Sky-Tec starter that used to sell for $484 without a core requirement now sells for $1,295 with a return core required, according to one shop. A propeller blade that cost $7,284 before the acquisition is now $10,964, a 51% increase. Maintenance shops have no option but to pass the increases on to customers, and some said they were concerned that competitors McCauley and MT would follow suit with price increases of their own. Hartzell did not immediately respond to AVweb phone calls and emails for comment.
Arcline was founded in 2018 by Rajeev Amara, a 1997 graduate of the Wharton School. Before launching Arcline, he spent 18 years in management positions with Golden Gate Capital, a San Francisco private equity firm that currently lists cumulative capital commitments of greater than $12 billion. Arcline is listed as holding $8.9 billion in cumulative capital commitments as of June 2023.
Hartzell Aviation represents a three-tier corporate umbrella established in July 2022 including Hartzell Propeller, Hartzell Aerospace Welding and Hartzell Engine Tech, which collectively oversaw acquired companies that built or supplied engine-related components. Acquisitions over the past few years have included lightweight aircraft starter manufacturer Sky-Tec and, in November 2023, Kelly Aero LLC, which manufactures aftermarket general aviation magnetos, replacement parts and ignition harnesses.

 

[PA-16]

Very sad, stick it to the poor guy. The golden rule, those with the gold make the rules....

 

[Steve Pierce]

And they screw up the reliability and the service. Hopefully another little guy like the guys that started SkyTec, Plane Power and now SureFly will hand them their ass.