Oil temp/ US Gage/ Keystone

Jetfever

Jetfever

Non-Member
I added an ECI 90 oil filter adapter. Not long after this mod, I had an oil temp "low" indication on my combo Oil pressure/ Oil temp gage: The oil temp would start cold at @ 70- never go above 130, even on 2+ hour flight. No change with front mount oil cooler blocked!

I sent the Gage to Keystone, they repaired/returned in and it would indicate 180-190 in cruise, but after 1 year, problem returned. (No way I can indicate over 130 degrees, 1 year is also the end of Keystone warranty). I was wondering if this 90 oil filter could be the cause of the failure? Damage to the probe in the adapter? (It looks OK). I placed the probe in boiling H2o when It was returned from Keystone, it indicated just under 212. I know I need to boil the probe again, just wondering if others have had a similar problem, and If there is a serviceable gage for sale out there.

What IS the magic fluid or gas in the probe anyway?

Again, I DO get a temp rise on the gage from 70 or so to 130.
 
Jetfever said:
I What IS the magic fluid or gas in the probe anyway?

Again, I DO get a temp rise on the gage from 70 or so to 130.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you might have a leak in the solder joint repair. The fluid in the bulb is ether. Here is a link to how they can be repaired. I have not tried it yet, A donor bulb is held in ice/salt water to keep the ether liquid while the tube is soldered to the gauge.
http://www.ply33.com/Repair/tempgauge
 
I believe Keystone told me they were using freon in the bourdon tube. I can't see where the oil filter adapter could cause the problem. Are you using the adapter between the capillary tube and the oil filter adapter? Here is a link that shows the adapter. http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog ... ?20X358218 I have compared the B&C, ECI and Casper Labs oil filter adapters side by side and could find no difference dimensionally.
 
Yes I am using the adapter in your above link.
I wonder if it is worth sending the unit back to keystone? If it failed twice... I have inspected the wire from the gage to the engine, no kinks or damage, it goes through the firewall with a nice rubber grommet and hi temp silicone surrounding it.
 
When I asked if the ECI 90 oil filter adapter could be at fault, I was wondering if using this "spacer" could somehow damage the oil temp bulb:
http://www.eci.aero/pages/products_detail.aspx?in=485

I had no problems with the temp gage before this mod, but I suppose even the utmost care could damage the probe/ tube. I used very low torque on instal but I was wondering if it was my error. The temp gage worked fine for at least 6 months after the keystone repair. I just checked the paperwork, it has been 13 months since repair, Keystone has a 1 year warranty. :cry:
 
Stand behind it? Just got my gauge back from Keystone Instrument. They sent the gauge back COD, $105.00. :eek: There was no advance warning. Initial discussion on $, when I spoke with them over the phone was that they have had trouble with the new type of solder required by the EPA, and there have been some leaks, causing lower indications over time. It was just over a year (13 months) since they first repaired the gauge and it began indicating low again after only a few months. I was under the impression they would fix it no charge, if found in good condition.

The Gauge came with a STEEL threaded nut rather than the BRASS nut that bolts the probe into the adapter on the engine. Since I did not get the old part back, I called Keystone to ask if this is the EXACT same thread, and if steel on the brass engine adapter would be a problem for fit, and of course for leaks. I sure hate to pull my borrowed unit off just to find out there is a problem. Keystone offered no explanation (I spoke with 2 people) other than to say, yes we found a leak.

Does anyone here know if there will be a problem with this new "steel" threaded insert in the brass adapter? Do I need any sealer on the threads?
If the insert is aluminum Keystone did not correct me, I'll check with a magnet when I get to the hanger.

Thanks, Steve
 
Steve, Have you called them and discussed this with someone in charge? I would tell them they come highly recommended on several Piper discussion forums and it could hurt their reputation not to take care of this. I know I have spent thousands of dollars with them over the years but there are other vendors that do this same work that I can use.
 
I should have written down names, but I did not. I know Keystone had my phone # as well as my address. I made it clear on my first call the gauge failed at LESS than a year, it indicated low, but the failure was difficult to detect at first, since it indicated lower over time. Keystone indicated they would NOT charge me. The unit warrantee was for a year. Since Keystone returned the unit COD, I did not want to refuse the $105.00 package, and there was not much to discuss with FedEx at that point. I was grumbling (to myself) writing the check since Keystone made it clear this failure of their repair was NOT an isolated one.

I phoned Keystone, and I spoke with 2 different people at Keystone after the gauge was returned, no help.

I still would at least like an answer about the steel nut provided, rather than my original brass nut. (For the probe). Is this part OK for service in the brass adapter? Threads the same size/ pitch? Dissimilar metal a problem? (It is verified, Steel).

I guess I'm used to this in aviation, I'm remembering a Xponder that failed on a weekly basis, but it is always a "different" problem, so more $ are spent to repair it. The failure was NOT a different problem in this case.

I am not suggesting forum members should avoid Keystone, but they could have done a little better here. There may be an expense to Keystone in parts as well as shipping, but I would have been happy to pay their cost and shipping, Sadly I believe they charged more than this. I do the R&R, an A&P friend will "sign off" the logs, or this Keystone failure would be big $.

I tested the gauge in boiling H20 and it indicated 208, about right I suppose at 1,500 feet.
I just might send them this letter, see if they have anything else to say.
 
Hi,
........since Keystone made it clear this failure of their repair was NOT an isolated one.

You might mention to the folks at Keystone that you're hearing of others that have had similar problems with Keystone products. Mention you think it might be best to just submit a service difficulty report with your local FSDO to perhaps save others some grief later on using Keystone products.

Parker-Hannifin Corporation got very attentive when I made this suggestion to them when I had some new brake drums that weren't up to standards. I didn't even have to send my return set back before they next day shipped a set in my direction. Must cause them some paper work grief, not that it matters much when you just want respectable service.
 
I would deffinately follow up with them on this. I don't see any issues with the brass and steel nut to adapter. Seen plenty of oil pressure gauges with the same.
 
E-mail to Keystone sent. I will keep you informed.

Thanks, Steve for the "steel nut" answer. Glad to know no problems with dissimilar metal here.

Remember, I returned the gauge @ 13 months, the warrantee is for 12 months. The early (less than 12 month) failure was difficult to detect over time, ergo the delay.

What do you think is fair?
 
I have had carburetors, instruments and other similar parts warranted just out of warranty coverage. Nice to see vendors go the extra mile. They seem to get my return business. Those gauges have gone for decades with no problem.
 
4 months after my warranty was up on a Kelly Aerospace rebuilt carb, idle cut-off quick working. I contacted them and they said send it in we will look at. I did and they sent it back. Fixed, no charge under warranty. Guess who I keep doing business with?
 
I sent Keystone an e mail with all the information, History of the temp gauge repair, Work order # etc. They have this information, but I thought a full accounting of events was in order after communicating on the Forum here.

Message sent Mon. No response by Fri.
 
I apologize for bringing up a possibly sore subject but are there any updates to the outcome of this situation?

Reason I ask is because my gauge started doing something similar last week and I am looking at my options for overhaul or if I should just buy a new one. Only difference was my gauge kept going lower as the flight progressed and eventually settled on 0 degrees and hasn't moved since.

Steve - What other vendors offer an overhaul service in case Keystone's reputation has tanked? Or do you have a spare I can buy off of you?
 
My spare is loaned out and has been for a couple of years come to think of it. :( Try John Wolf & Co. www.johnwolfco.com they do it faster and less expensive than Keystone or Lockhaven Airparts according to several friends of mine. You probably lost the gas out of the capillary tube.
 
Andrew, No problem bringing up the subject.

As you know Keystone sent me the repaired unit COD and I paid it, I was shocked, but I needed the gage to get my plane airworthy.

Keystone led me to believe they would fix it/ stand behind their work, since the "new" solder has failed in the recent past.

I wrote Keystone a letter, and I called them, they are NOT standing behind their work and they will not refund the $ I paid. End of story.

Looks like John Wolf might be the place to go. Please let us know how it goes.

Great to have a Forum like this and more options!

Steve M
 
Thanks for the info guys. If I may ask another question, what is the model number on the gauge? I know it says US GAUGE but I forgot to copy down the number afterwards and won't be by the hangar for a few more days and would like to have this info in case the shop asks when I call in to request a quote.

Andrew
 
Andrew, I would just tell them it is a Piper 2in 1 oil temp/oil pressure gauge and they can fix you up. I have never looked up the part number to be honest.
 
Broke the oil temp gage/probe

Guess what I managed to do?

During the oil change today I sheared the mechanical oil temp probe from the wire. Duuuuuhh:tongue:

I am now shopping for the proper probe/unit.

Any leads please?

Gilles
 
Did the same thing so don't feel bad, but ouch. Lock haven is around $300 or you can buy a new unapproved one from Wag Aero for the same money and you can't tell them apart.
 
Thanks to all for your input!

Edited because I just remembered I have oil pressure and temp on the same instrument. Will have to go have a look at the plane.


Gilles
 
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I found one that looks the same than mine at Wag Aero for 300 bucks. My capillary cable broke right at the oil screen housing. Does anyone knows if I could fix it and if so, how it could be done?

Giles
 
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I'd send it to John Wolf. I found a site once that showed how to fill the capillary with gas and solder shut when it is calibrated correctly but can't remember where I found it.
 
Gilbert and Steve,

Thanks so much for your time!

I've been on zillons of various aviation forums and every "expert" is telling me there is no other way than buying another expensive instrument. You are the first ones providing me with leads to fix my problem for 15 bucks! I will read the instructions religiously and I am confident I'll make it, with a little help from a friend.

This forum is priceless, thanks again for making my day!

Gilles
 
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