Vagabond A-65 or A-75 Baffles?

[LightFlight]

Hi guys,

My baffles are getting very tired, and I don't really want to re-install the old worn out baffles between my freshly overhauled cylinders. Does anyone have a source for something that I can make fit?

I've contemplated making my own, but I have a lot of work to do with my AME to get C-GFMW airworthy again, so if there is something I can order while we push forward then that would be ideal.

Thank you,

Joel

 

[Steve Pierce]

Unless University has them I think your only option is to use your old ones for templates and make new ones.

 

[LightFlight]

Unless University has them I think your only option is to use your old ones for templates and make new ones.

Did you get autocorrected from Univair? LOL.

Thanks Steve. They have some similar stuff... I think my drawings may be for the Lycoming powered PA-15 though... I'll keep digging.

If I have to make new ones, so be it.

Cheers,

Joel

 

[LightFlight]

I am really struggling with this. The drawings on the SWPC Vagabond CD are nothing like what was installed in my PA-17 before I removed the engine for the top overhaul.

I am starting to think maybe I had a lack of baffling, which is why they cracked in the first place.

Can anyone take some pictures of their baffling and post them for me please? I need some help!

Thank you,

Joel

 

[tnowak]

Joel,

My engine is being top overhauled so all my baffles are off. I can take pics of mine in that state if that helps. Will be Monday before I can post the pics.

TonyN

 

[Steve Pierce]

I looked at the baffle drawings on the Vagabond CD and they appear to be for the 65 hp Lycoming pictured here. Can other members please take and post pictures of their baffles so we can compare. I know a lot of these airplanes have been converted and modified over the years and it would be good to get a consensus on what is correct since we don't have the correct drawings.

 

[LightFlight]

Joel,

My engine is being top overhauled so all my baffles are off. I can take pics of mine in that state if that helps. Will be Monday before I can post the pics.

TonyN

Hi Tony,

I'm currently looking at mine in the same state, as mine is getting topped too. Any pics would be great, especially since we have the same cranckase and cylinders!

I will post mine later today too, as they sit on my workbench.

I looked at the baffle drawings on the Vagabond CD and they appear to be for the 65 hp Lycoming pictured here. Can other members please take and post pictures of their baffles so we can compare. I know a lot of these airplanes have been converted and modified over the years and it would be good to get a consensus on what is correct since we don't have the correct drawings.

Thank you Steve! That would be very helpful. I can only see upkeep issues like this getting more difficult as we get further from 1948. I have digitized the trim tab for mine too, and will likely put together a full Solidworks model of the PA-17 as I go along.

The baffle drawings make a lot more sense now, in regards to the picture. In this case, your picture is worth more than a thousand words, and I didn't see it in my many google searches (probably because I was more focused on Continentals). I have downloaded and saved some of the pictures I found that seemed similar to mine, I will share those here as well.

One major difference, my baffle install did not have and inner section between the fins and crankcase, but this seems to be quite common. Is this something I should have had and maybe why my cylinders cracked?

 

[LightFlight]

 

[Steve Pierce]

You definitely want the inner cylinder baffles. They force the air down between the fins of the cylinders. I would think they would be more like the PA11 or 90 hp Super Cub.
This is a 90 hp Super Cub.

 

[LightFlight]

Safe to say I was missing a lot of baffling? We are referring to the baffles along and up against the crankcase right? This is how I got the plane in mid-2012.

So basically I want to achieve what you posted for the Lycoming, but on my Continental 65?

Thanks for the pics!

 

[Steve Pierce]

No, The Lycoming is an odd arrangement. I would wait and see what other's post but I think they will be similar to the Continental powered Super Cub pictures I posted being that Piper didn't usually reinvent the wheel.

 

[andya]

here's some pics of a C-85 in a PA-17

 

[LightFlight]

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/intercylinder_baffles_343.pdf

Check this out... helpful but not complete per say.

 

[d.grimm]

My Vagabond used the Cessna 120/140 baffles for the C-85.
I think Airforms(?) or Airflames Alaska sells new ones and has a lot
Of good pictures on their website.
Dave

 

[LightFlight]

here's some pics of a C-85 in a PA-17

Thank you!

My Vagabond used the Cessna 120/140 baffles for the C-85.
I think Airforms(?) or Airflames Alaska sells new ones and has a lot
Of good pictures on their website.
Dave

I've come across those in my searches! Thank you Dave.

My concerns were that the baffles looked very different from what I currently have (extra holes towards the firewall etc), but I'm sure they can be made to work.

 

[LightFlight]

I am starting to lean towards the Wag-aero Aeronca 7AC Champ baffle set.

It definitely fits the A-75, and looks quite complete. I personally would have taken the side pieces down between the rocker covers a little further, like Steve has depicted in his Supercub pics.

I am not sure if I can use the crankcase tray baffle, but possibly. I definitely did not have one of those in the old baffle set. I do have the rectangular cut-out in my metal nose bowl, so it makes sense to duct that air a little better.

This is the kit I am referring to: M-170-000



I will have to rivet some patches in the unused holes as well, I figure.


Gonna wait until Monday to see Tony pics before I decide to order these. Thanks guys.

 

[tnowak]

Joel,

Can't easily tell from your pic, but was there a good seal between your baffles and the top and nose cowlings? My A65 also has small baffles fitted in the gap between left and right cylinder pairs so the air doesn't go down the gap between cylinders.
My baffles look quite similar to those in the pic of the Super Cub baffles that Steve P posted.
TonyN

 

[Steve Pierce]

One thing I have noticed on factory baffles, normally they are split between the cylinders to allow for the seperate expansion and contraction of the cylinders. I have seen cracks emanate from screws that were put through both baffles holding the baffle seals on.

 

[Bruce]

I bought some baffles from wag aero for my O290 wagabond and they were of poor quality so I sent them back. I recently bought a lower baffle from them for my champ and the mounting holes were off almost a quarter inch.

 

[LightFlight]

I bought some baffles from wag aero for my O290 wagabond and they were of poor quality so I sent them back. I recently bought a lower baffle from them for my champ and the mounting holes were off almost a quarter inch.

That is not re-assuring, but thank you for your insight.

I wonder if I can get Univair to send me pictures of the baffles they have listed for the PA-17. They claim they fit the -18 (95HP) as well...

 

[tnowak]

Joel,

Here are the pics of my baffles. I forgot to bring the small, horizontal, front, port baffle with me but can photograph that later.
The vertical baffles are split and have 180 deg bends so they kind of locked together, but fatigue has broken off one of the tabs.
I will be replacing the seal material with new stuff.

Let me know if you need any other info.
TonyN

 

[LightFlight]

Joel,

Here are the pics of my baffles. I forgot to bring the small, horizontal, front, port baffle with me but can photograph that later.
The vertical baffles are split and have 180 deg bends so they kind of locked together, but fatigue has broken off one of the tabs.
I will be replacing the seal material with new stuff.

Let me know if you need any other info.
TonyN

Thanks Tony! Awesome pics.

After a lot of thinking and googling, I think I will re-make what I have. It is going to take more time to get flying than I wanted, but I know I can do a good job of it.

Mine are like Dave's shown here, with a full back baffle, and the side baffles mating to the cowl and tucking up in between the rocker covers.

With such a small cowl, I think with good seals this will work just great, and doesn't leave the rocker covers out of the baffled air flow as well.

The inter-cylinder baffles (and probably lower tray) I will buy, but the back baffles, side baffles, and front baffles I will re-make by hand, bit by bit.

Thanks for your help everyone. I will post more pics of mine and info as I come across it!

 

[LightFlight]

I've got my baffles all drawn up in CAD. Lots of tweaking and test fitting using card stock printed at 1 to 1. They should get waterjet this week so I can fit them!

I'm wondering about finish. A fellow at the local airstrip suggested glass beading them... I think I kind of like that idea. But rather than paint, I think I may spend the money to have them clear anodized. Anyone have experience with anodize on 3003 baffles? I bet it would hold up awesome!!!

 

[LightFlight]

Found the real part numbers and drawings!

Univair's part list helped a lot. I should have bought that long ago. Then I found most of the drawings I was missing on the Shortwing Piper Club CD #1, not the PA-15/17 CD where I was looking.

The drawings for the front baffles are still missing, but Univair sells the baffles themselves. That will do.

I'm redoing my baffles again, this time to the blueprints. Tony, yours look very close to the prints.

 

[jeremygerhold]

So does anybody have any drawings or templates for the continental a65-8 for a pa-15?

 

[Tom Ford]

Question for you guys, are the baffle drawings on the short wing cd for a continental 65? Or the lycoming?
Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tnowak]

Tom,
I am sure they are for the Lycoming, going on the drawing numbers.
Look at drawing 11616, "Powerplant".
The powerplant dwg calls out the individual baffle drawing numbers for a Lycoming installation.

Tony

 

[Tom Ford]

What’s the difference for the a-65? I have a project airplane that doesn’t have baffles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tnowak]

Engine profiles and baffles are completely different....
Tony

 

[tnowak]

Does your project plane have an A65?
Probably the only way forward is to look at another Vagabond and take measurements or make templates.
Left and right baffles are fairly straight forward in design. The rear one is more tricky as involves lots of bends and corners.
How advanced are you with your project?
Tony

 

[jeremygerhold]

Does your project plane have an A65?
Probably the only way forward is to look at another Vagabond and take measurements or make templates.
Left and right baffles are fairly straight forward in design. The rear one is more tricky as involves lots of bends and corners.
How advanced are you with your project?
Tony

All finished. Took baffling off a luscome and cut it down to fit.

 

[jeremygerhold]

Before and afters