Wing recommendations for my Exp. Pacer. Need some advice.

[cook11]

Hey group I am having a difficult time deciding on what wing mods I should pursue for my amateur built shortwing Pacer. I am hoping that some of you expiercienced pilots/owners can help me out....

Here are my choices as I see it:

Stock wing squared off wingtip + VG's

Stock wing squared off wingtip + leading edge cuff and VG's

Stock wing squared off wingtip + lengthened flaps and ailerons to wingtip and VG's "Trimmer style"

Stock wing squared off wingtip + lengthened flaps and ailerons to wingtip, leading edge cuff and VG's

​

Dakota Cub shortwing "Super20" without the leading edge slot

Dakota Cub shortwing "Super20" with the leading edge slot


If you were to build a shortwing experimental Pacer what wing would you chose and why? Also would you add Super Cub tail surfaces?

Thanks for your advice in advance!

 

[alaskadrifter]

I would go with the big flap and the extended cub feathers. When I’m heavy it takes a few extra Mississippis for the tail to come up. VGs too, but I’m not a high time Pacer pilot and I didn’t even stay at a Holday Inn Express last night.

 

[CamTom12]

If I wasn’t building a stretched fuselage, I’d do a slight wing extension, push the ailerons out to the tip, and lengthen the flaps.

I’ve not flown the Charlie Center cuff, but I’ve heard it’s nice. I’d probably add that.

I’d also add VGs to any shortwing configuration, and with a higher lift wing I’d want larger tail surfaces to counteract the increased pitching moment.

But that’s just like, my opinion, man.

 

[Stephen]

I agree with Cam Tom except the Cuff. I talked with several who would not bother after trying the cuff. Plus, the advantage of a cuff is gaining a higher AOA. Which is not all that helpful in landings. More flaps will help slowing the approach plus give you more visibility.

 

[cook11]

Thanks for the input guys! Are there any benefits of having the slotted Dakota wing from a safety standpoint? Does this wing decrease your chance of moose stalling a Pacer?

 

[Stephen]

Slots, slats and cuff all do the same basic thing...increase AOA. But, this requires a higher deck angle to achieve. High deck angles decrease view. More wing and or flaps lower stall speeds by adding lift at or aft of the center of lift. Flaps do so with a lower deck angle. If you watch stol competition you will see slated Cubs approaching with a very high nose angle.

I have heard people say they are not happy with cuffs on their Pipers and plan to remove them.

 

[mmoyle]

Thanks for the input guys! Are there any benefits of having the slotted Dakota wing from a safety standpoint? Does this wing decrease your chance of moose stalling a Pacer?

VG’s pretty much prevent moose stalls... that what I was told...so......I’ve tried....but not close to the ground. My Pacer was stock with VG’s....all I got was a good shake when I passed though my own wake. I’ve modified the heck out of my Pacer...PA18 horizontals and elevators. Bigger engine, Trimmer wing mods, Crosswind STOL set up on the wings, gap seals, stall fences, leading edge and wing tips....VG’s.. going to be interesting to see what it’ll do when I try out tight 360’s over the same track. Wings are nearly done.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[cook11]

mmoyle did you extend your wing or is it the same length as a shortwing? It’ll be interesting to see how your Pacer performs! The Dakota Cub wing is really catching my eye whether or not the slot is needed I’m not sure. The slot is a $1750 add on last time I checked.

 

[mmoyle]

mmoyle did you extend your wing or is it the same length as a shortwing? It’ll be interesting to see how your Pacer performs! The Dakota Cub wing is really catching my eye whether or not the slot is needed I’m not sure. The slot is a $1750 add on last time I checked.

really close to the same length. ;~)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[andya]

It has been said before, but you need to decide what your primary mission is.
If you want more angle of attach out of the wing, then many of the items mentioned
will likely do that for you. One thing that usually happens at higher angles of attack is drag
goes up and to take advantage of that you need more power.

In my opinion, the std tri pacer wing is pretty docile from a safety standpoint. I can't tell you
what airspeed at different bank angles or power settings altitude I am flying but I can tell
you by feel if I am approaching a critical angle of attack from feel, ie getting to know my airplane.

As Stephan pointed out higher aoa allow higher pitch attitudes in some situations where
that extra aoa and pitch angle makes it difficult to see.

What ever the characteristics of the airplane with or without "performance mods" you need
to practice to find out how the airplane reacts to what you think you want it to do.

 

[akflyer]

D&E wings. 66" wide ones. Big flaps. big ailerons. Saw a guy in Valdez that has one and it is a beast. They did a 30" stretch but he said he would rather have the 22" stretch on the fuse.


The only thing that will prevent a moose stall is your feet keeping the plane coordinated. VGs will help some with an accelerated stall but wont prevent it.

 

[Just Call Me Al]

Since it is an experimental, what about moving the ailerons out to the tips and using extended Keller (PSTOL) flaps from Airframes AK?

AL

 

[cook11]

Al,

The new wings have the ailerons out to the wingtips and the flaps enlarged to 90".

Jon

 

[Just Call Me Al]

Al,

The new wings have the ailerons out to the wingtips and the flaps enlarged to 90".

Jon

Wow, long flaps! Is that with the ailerons moved out 24"? Are the flaps actuated with one bellcrank each in the middle hinge or 2 bellcranks? How about some good pictures and details on the wing mods that you ended up doing?
Thanks,

 

[cook11]

Yes, that is with the ailerons out to the wingtips. New wings have four flap hangars with two bell cranks.

 

[Just Call Me Al]

What did you do to the wing structure to strengthen? Any assembly pictures?
AL